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Do you appreciate teachers more, or less now than in normal times?

353 replies

Bluewavescrashing · 03/02/2021 18:43

Genuine question. I'm a full time infant school teacher. Our school is offering more than most in terms of online education, personalised learning, 1:1 zoom sessions etc. But I wonder how parents feel. Has lockdown showed you how much teachers give to your children through planning lessons, making resources, delivering lessons to cater for all levels of attainment? Do you find it easy to teach your child? When lockdown ends would you carry on with home learning and deregister as they have made more progress 1:1 with you or are you looking forward to sending them back to school?

Nb I have a large group of key worker children, up to 25 each day whom I teach in person in school - this is aimed at parents accessing home learning rather than key worker / vulnerable provision in school.

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 05/02/2021 07:33

You are getting complaints so start a thread here?

I don’t think it will make any difference to the level of complaints. Try a different route? To your HT etc

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/02/2021 07:48

I guess the point of this thread was that I hoped through this time parents would realise more what we do to get to the point of being ready to teach-we are always working on the next week's planning and resources in school.

Teachers on here are never done telling everyone how hard they work, how much planning, how much marking and how many hours they work in a week. Most professions are hard and demanding, I know very few people in professional roles who don’t work long days and additional hours. Teaching is no different in that respect. No one sees the time I put in behind the scenes in my job, I don’t need to moan about it or raise awareness or look for praise, I’m doing a job I’m well paid to do - in a profession that comes in for near constant criticism and scrutiny.

Maybe grow a thicker skin, or respond to the complaints through your SLT, or accept you’ll never keep everyone happy.

morbidhamster · 05/02/2021 07:49

OP what were you hoping to get out of this post? Seems to me you're looking for exactly the things you profess to not need (validation, a pat on the back etc)
FWIW I would say my opinion hasn't really changed but strength of feeling has grown. There are some in the profession who I have huge admiration and respect for. And others who seem to be on a different planet. What does irk is the culture whereby many teachers seem to think they work longer/harder/do more for less, and are clearly clueless about life outside of teaching. OP, your comment about 3 days of Zoom training (not so tongue in cheek I think) is a good example of this. In my sector (also public) we switched overnight to remote working and haven't missed a day of delivering our service since March last year. It has been relentless and we've had to adopt to new and challenging ways of working. During the two lockdowns I've had to do this with children at home, because in spite of being a key worker, my children got nothing of an education by going into school. It's not much improved now in some subjects and although I've been impressed by some of the teachers, there are others who are pretty crap. (Like the IT teacher who set a task which involved children entering a key to get into an external site. The key had expired and in spite of the children sending messages to let him know, he didn't come back to them until after the lesson finished, 50 minutes later. And then told them to not worry about it).
As for upskilling and training, like most people I know, I assume a level of personal responsibility around that, and don't expect special recognition for it.
I've worked in public, private and third sectors over the years, and to varying degrees, there are good and bad in every area. But I don't see any evidence that on the whole, teachers have a more raw deal.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

MakeWorkYourNewFavourite · 05/02/2021 08:03

I don't think teachers have it bad at all. There are plenty of other people who work every hour God sends. But teachers do love to go on and on about and on about it. Any friends I have who teach, love to mention how hard they work at least once a week. It's as if none of the rest of us are doing anything. I live in France and it doesn't happen here. Here, they all think they're super brains, but don't complain about the workload.

SavannahMiasMum · 05/02/2021 08:07

@Jellycatspyjamas

I guess the point of this thread was that I hoped through this time parents would realise more what we do to get to the point of being ready to teach-we are always working on the next week's planning and resources in school.

Teachers on here are never done telling everyone how hard they work, how much planning, how much marking and how many hours they work in a week. Most professions are hard and demanding, I know very few people in professional roles who don’t work long days and additional hours. Teaching is no different in that respect. No one sees the time I put in behind the scenes in my job, I don’t need to moan about it or raise awareness or look for praise, I’m doing a job I’m well paid to do - in a profession that comes in for near constant criticism and scrutiny.

Maybe grow a thicker skin, or respond to the complaints through your SLT, or accept you’ll never keep everyone happy.

Totally agree with you
SavannahMiasMum · 05/02/2021 08:09

@morbidhamster

OP what were you hoping to get out of this post? Seems to me you're looking for exactly the things you profess to not need (validation, a pat on the back etc) FWIW I would say my opinion hasn't really changed but strength of feeling has grown. There are some in the profession who I have huge admiration and respect for. And others who seem to be on a different planet. What does irk is the culture whereby many teachers seem to think they work longer/harder/do more for less, and are clearly clueless about life outside of teaching. OP, your comment about 3 days of Zoom training (not so tongue in cheek I think) is a good example of this. In my sector (also public) we switched overnight to remote working and haven't missed a day of delivering our service since March last year. It has been relentless and we've had to adopt to new and challenging ways of working. During the two lockdowns I've had to do this with children at home, because in spite of being a key worker, my children got nothing of an education by going into school. It's not much improved now in some subjects and although I've been impressed by some of the teachers, there are others who are pretty crap. (Like the IT teacher who set a task which involved children entering a key to get into an external site. The key had expired and in spite of the children sending messages to let him know, he didn't come back to them until after the lesson finished, 50 minutes later. And then told them to not worry about it). As for upskilling and training, like most people I know, I assume a level of personal responsibility around that, and don't expect special recognition for it. I've worked in public, private and third sectors over the years, and to varying degrees, there are good and bad in every area. But I don't see any evidence that on the whole, teachers have a more raw deal.
Fully agree. Most in life get on with it. Teachers seem to enjoy telling us how wonderful they are and how hard there half a year job is
chocolateisavegetable · 05/02/2021 08:17

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@chocolateisavegetable - I don’t think teachers are criticised more than any other profession. It’s mumsnet- mums are going to come on to discuss education. It’s right abs proper they should be able to do so without bullying from a small number of posters.

Swearing, silly games like “teacher bingo”, daffodils, etc. add nothing at all to any debate. Nor do constant spurious claims of victimisation.

No group should be beyond criticism. Some teachers on here do act as if it’s the hardest job in the world without much appreciation of what the rest of the world of work is like. Teaching is not a uniquely difficult job and it certainly does have its perks.[/quote]
Not everyone on MN is a Mum, not all mums have children in eduction, so I would suggest that a greater percentage of posters use supermarkets and health services - yet I don't see many posts bashing people in those professions. If you see bullying - report it, but it would be very interesting to know the number of posts being reported of teachers being bullied versus teachers bullying others. I'm not a teacher, in case you are wondering.

noblegiraffe · 05/02/2021 08:31

Teachers and school staff may be the only profession on MN targeted by a dedicated campaign group who actively want lower safety standards for them at work. A campaign group who have been persistently writing vile comments about teachers, denigrating the profession while getting front page media coverage and meeting the Prime Minister.

This group have been astroturfing MN since last summer. I'm not sure why some people haven't noticed that the vitriol aimed at teachers who do not want lower safety standards at work isn't normal. Perhaps it's because teachers and other posters on here have done such a good job of spotting these bad-faith posters and getting their threads deleted and the posters banned that so many seem oblivious. Or maybe they're of that ilk themselves.

morbidhamster · 05/02/2021 08:32

*Not everyone on MN is a Mum, not all mums have children in eduction, so I would suggest that a greater percentage of posters use supermarkets and health services - yet I don't see many posts bashing people in those professions. If you see bullying - report it, but it would be very interesting to know the number of posts being reported of teachers being bullied versus teachers bullying others. I'm not a teacher, in case you are wondering.
*
I suspect the number of general 'teacher bashing' posts are in relation to the number of general 'teacher seeking validation' posts. Neither are necessary or helpful.

noblegiraffe · 05/02/2021 08:36

Some teacher bashing threads last mere minutes so you might not be aware of them.

Janus · 05/02/2021 08:50

I too always thought a teacher’s job is so much harder than people think, so much work goes on at home at evenings and weekends. A lot of people go home and maybe do the odd bit of work, check emails etc but don’t do work nearly every evening.
The one thing I’ve learnt from having 4 at home but only one in primary is how dull English has become!! It seems to be a tick box of learning prepositional nouns, frontal adverbials, rhetorical questions etc. It doesn’t seem to be encouraging creativity or an interesting read. I take my hat off to teachers even more as I never realised how boring some of it must be!!!
Our primary teachers are in school all day (have about 30-40% in each day) and then they are producing videos from their home each evening for us learning at hone. We have a zoom you can join every day if your child doesn’t understand something or just wants to see their friends for half and hour. We photograph every piece of work done a d send it in and they comment on every piece (for every child at home, that must be about 20).
All my older ones are getting every lesson via zoom, next one up at secondary is literally at her screen from 8.45-3.00 with 2 breaks every single day. Teachers are always there.
It’s a lot of work and I want to thank anyone who’s a teacher on here.

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/02/2021 08:50

So mumsnet deal with them effectively if they get deleted quickly.

noblegiraffe · 05/02/2021 08:53

They need to be reported before MNHQ deal with them.

And they do not all get deleted in minutes. MNHQ have been getting better at this due to the sheer volume we've had in recent months and they are more likely to believe the report of troll. Some mods are better at it than others. Some let the threads run until they've just grim and have to go.

Who do you think is reporting them and getting MNHQ to take them down?

Equimum · 05/02/2021 08:54

I have, and have always had a lot of respect for my sons teachers. I think they do a really great jobs and they have been amazing during lockdown. The school have tried really hard with resources and online learning this time round.

What I have learned, though, is that my eldest DS made far more during the last lockdown when school weren’t guiding us so closely and I was more responsible for what he learned and how. Although we probably won’t, we have seriously considered deregistering following this period. Our reasons are largely around the curriculum and the way things are taught. Our son is an enthusiastic hands on learner, but seems to spend most of his time at school repeating back phrases he doesn’t my need to know (affronted verb, par-en-the-sis).

foxhat · 05/02/2021 09:01

In any other sector, staff would be given 3 days' paid training on teams or zoom with a cushy lunch.

Maybe in the private sector. I work for the NHS. All meetings, training etc are now virtual and we have been offered no training at all. You are expected to train yourself in your own time.

In terms of the question, my son moved from primary to secondary school in September so has had a lockdown in 2 different schools. Primary school did literally nothing to support home learning other than send out a list of largely pointless websites. Secondary school is running a fullish programme with enough teacher support for the kids to get answers to some questions they submit. My OH wondered why the primary teachers were still being paid. I thought perhaps there was some complexity we didn't know about but hoped that many of them were furloughed rather than on full pay as my friends kid was going into school and there were only a handful of teachers there so there time was certainly not going on keyworker school in the most part.

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/02/2021 09:03

I too always thought a teacher’s job is so much harder than people think, so much work goes on at home at evenings and weekends.

Outside of senior leadership I don’t know a teacher who works every evening, even in the current situation. The teachers I know work very hard during what would be a for most people a normal working day (ie between 8.30-5.30), and not at weekends, I know some secondary teachers who take time off during the day during free periods to be available later for their students working at home in the evenings. I don’t know any who do substantial work over the holidays, beyond checking emails and setting up classes the day before school returns. Out of the head teachers I know, most do a lot of work in evenings and weekends, which is commensurate with other management roles in the public sector.

Teachers work hard in a demanding job, so do nurses, police officers, social workers etc.

A lot of people go home and maybe do the odd bit of work, check emails etc but don’t do work nearly every evening

You’ve clearly never worked in a child protection team, or in crisis teams in mental health services, or in any role working with vulnerable people. Not just checking a few emails, but sitting with a child until an emergency placement can be found, or wasting with someone in crisis until they’re safe to be left, or writing assessments because it needs done.

Lots of professions work very hard, with long hours in emotionally demanding jobs, with high levels of scrutiny and accountability, and high levels of very public criticism.

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/02/2021 09:04

They need to be reported before MNHQ deal with them.

Just like any other inappropriate thread then. Or should mumsnet scan the whole site for anything that might offend the sensibilities of teachers?

Floridaflipflops · 05/02/2021 09:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

noblegiraffe · 05/02/2021 09:07

Of course, Jelly but how many threads have you had to report recently that have been deliberately trolling your profession?

Like I said, MN has been targeted by an astroturfing campaign that hates teachers. It's been pretty relentless.

RiverSkater · 05/02/2021 09:10

I appreciate them tons more as I realise how much they have to do and standards have shifted. My daughter is in yr4 and doing stuff that is beyond me 🙄

Frodont · 05/02/2021 09:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

noblegiraffe · 05/02/2021 09:12

at one point you were a very prolific thread starter

I've always been a very prolific thread starter.

I don’t think there is a targeted group, well no evidence I’ve seen anyway.

You've not seen it so it must not be true? Confused It absolutely is true.

Teachers campaigned to have schools closed.

Why is it always 'teacher campaigned to have schools closed'? Have you not noticed the pandemic that meant schools had to close? I didn't want schools to close. The situation was unfortunately so poorly managed by the government that they ended up having to close schools. Teachers wanted schools to be safer.

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/02/2021 09:17

Of course, Jelly but how many threads have you had to report recently that have been deliberately trolling your profession?

How many threads have you seen started by social workers talking about how hard they work, how unappreciated they are, how no one understands the challenges they have? It’s chicken and egg. Parents are much more likely to come into contact with teachers than social workers so of course there will be more threads but I’ve seen a fair few critical of social work - which is fair enough, everyone is open to criticism.

noblegiraffe · 05/02/2021 09:18

Jelly you seem to be completely ignoring what I've been telling you about the astroturfing group deliberately targeting teachers on MN.

That's why it has been particularly toxic for teachers on here since last summer.

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/02/2021 09:19

Teachers wanted schools to be safer.

That’s been the stance of most teachers I’ve seen on here, however for some “safer” equates with “closed” especially in secondary schools where safer seems almost impossible to achieve.