Does this sound normal? 7yo behaviour getting to me

[monfri]

Sorry this is a bit long but I'm currently absolutely fuming to a probably unacceptable level with my 7yo

My 7yo constantly backchats me.
It's since she started homeschooling. Every single time she has an online class she's stares around the room doesn't engage and today a teacher was asking her a question and again she was just parking about and I had to tell her the teacher was asking her a question for the third time.
After she eventually answered she then swung around on her chair and hit her knee on the desk after I told her to stop swinging on.

I'm working and I don't have time for all of this silliness every single day.
I then swap her chair to a non turn around one because I've asked her not to turn around on the office chair she's on. She then starts whining that she wasntttt turnnnnningg on the chair. It's not fairrrrrr

She knows she's not to whine and put silly whiny voices on.

I ended up losing my temper shouting at her to leave the room and sit down until in her bedroom until her attitude is better. I know that's not right but I don't know how to deal with this.
I then said she's to return to 'school' but to be silent not to say anything and listen to her teacher who's still in the live class. She continues on about the chair.

I didn't have these big problems before homeschool but dd has had issues at school with not engaging at school. She is lucky she is bright and in with the top kids in her classes but I think if I don't nip these behavioural issues in the bud now I'm setting myself up for worse things down the line. Or am I being too mean? I'm finding it so hard being at home working and homeschooling as I know many others are. I have emailed school and said she might not get everything done as I can't always help but school just replied saying there is no reason she won't be able to do her work because all work is set age appropriately and it's all based on her independently learning. So I'm having to squeeze everything in around work. I am doing this but I'm fed up with dd not engaging and then backchatting me when i ask why she's not writing or anything that.

Any ideas? Other than wine. It's too early for that isn't it.

Our school have asked us not to supervise so I have no idea if mine are swinging on their chairs to be honest! I’m sure they probably are

Reading other threads on here, plenty of people seem to be struggling with their 7 year olds at the moment. So I wouldn’t be too worried. It’s a really hard age for online learning.
I would chat to the teacher about it.

Thanks that's what our school basically said.
My dc is the clumsiest dc though. Obviously I can't 'supervise' all the time as I'm working but dd sits in my office downstairs as that's where her desk is (originally was for after school) and tbh I feel better seeing her rather than her being elsewhere in the house where I can't at least hear her.

Yesterday she climbed up on a shelf and brought the whole lot down and has a wonderful bump on her head as evidence perhaps this isn't normal I don't have any idea I only have the one. I don't think she'd get any work done being left alone as well.

That sounds hard. Any parent working from home and trying to facilitate home schooling has an impossible task.

She's still little so will need some supervision. It's possible she's playing up more for attention. It's also likely that she's bored of online work and struggles to always engage fully.

I think you're right to give dd consequences for messing about so don't feel bad sending her to her room for a while or being strict.
You could also try some positive reinforcement; lots of praise for anything done well, even if thats just sitting nicely in her chair! maybe a sticker chart or a prize (new toy?) for a week of behaving well in class? Bribery seems to work well with that age group

I sympathise. My 8 year-old is being quite difficult; she zones out of lessons and often won't engage or is silly, wants to play or talk about other things, and stubborn, and then gets all teary if I lose patience. Yesterday she went in a silly mood and crossed out half of what she'd written and scribbled on it. It's hard to be patient when she's like that. Other times, she'll sit and produce a really lovely piece of work.

It's worth remembering that at school they don't always engage fully; there are lots of distractions in class so it's to be expected.

Online learning for primary children is far from ideal. It's boring for them let's be honest. Don't put too much pressure on yourself or dd to get all the work completed. It sounds like you're doing well in the circumstances

The school has to say that to cover themselves. I would say you are expecting too much. Honestly, it would be a very unusual 7 year old who didn’t swing on a turny chair and look around the room. I suggest lowering your cow rations. Concentrate on the whiny voice and ignore the other behaviour. Lots of love and praise and rewards, and don’t worry if she doesn’t complete everything.

I’m a teacher by the way

Hmm. I teach this age group and it sounds like you're struggling to manage her behaviour effectively. You need to put some strategies in as seven year olds do not always do as they're told. She doesn't sound abnormal to me.

What strategies you choose will depend on what suits you as a parent and her as a child. What have you already tried?

Expectations! Not cow rations!

@Moltenpink

Our school have asked us not to supervise so I have no idea if mine are swinging on their chairs to be honest! I’m sure they probably are

This is quite weird, what age?

Parents should be around where possible, as schooling alone is dreadfully lonely so bad for mental health.

I would completely ignore this instruction! I'm not 'supervising' but I am 'supporting'.

I do think you need to leave the online teaching to the teacher and not get involved. It's quite confusing to them with completely different authority figures around. Our school asks that parents are near by to help with any technical issues but otherwise don't get involved and we find that if we're in the room with DD she plays up far more than if she's just left to get on with it.

Overall though, she sounds like she is seeking sensory stimulation - the fidgeting, the climbing, the spinning etc. This could be a sign of a sensory processing disorder but in these times, it' could also just be a sign that she is cooped up and bored and frustrated. I'd be aiming to see what you can do to burn off some of this before she does school work eg by going out for a quick fast walk first thing in the morning / trip to playground before school / at-home yoga or exercise class etc.

You could also see if some kind of fidget gadget works for her while she's watching the teacher. Without the stimulation of the classroom she could be finding it hard. You get all sorts from little toys they squeeze to bracelets that have spikes/scratchy bits for them to fiddle with. Hell, I find myself wearing necklaces a lot in lockdown because I like to hold and gently pull them. I have one with a big chunk of stone on it that I fiddle with as the various edges are somehow comforting. So a child wanting the same doesn't seem unreasonable.

a sign she's cooped up, bored and frustrated I think this sums up how all children are feeling at the moment and adults!

She sounds normal to me. I like the idea of a fidget toy, will dig out our old fidget spinner. Thanks for that tip.

Oh yes, can totally recommend fidget toys. My DD has several and they are really helping her sit still and concentrate.

My DD works well most days, in school they give out smelly stickers, I bought a multi pack from eBay and if she does her work well and she has behaved she gets stickers occasionally for her work, they love a smelly sticker who doesn’t! These are for when we have fully engaged done the harder work sheet etc

I was trying to think of explanations and came up with these options:

1. Inherently lazy; likes to succeed instantly and doesn't want to work hard for success.

1. Bored with the level of questions as finds them too easy.

1. Thinking as she's in a new situation she can push boundaries to get out of work.

1. Scared of failing; trying to avoid this by deflecting attention away with poor behaviour.

On balance I think 3 is most likely. Try to stay calm, give simple, relatively immediate consequences for poor behaviour (maybe offer incentive for good behaviour and withdraw if not met) - implement consequences the first time the rules are broken after a warning. They need to be something you are willing to do; don't resort to 'final warnings' because you're thinking it's going to be a fag to issue the punishment (eg taking away screen time when it's as much a blessing for you to have your DD not bothering you for a while).

Ignore secondary behaviour - eg if you've warned her not to be dreamy in live classes, don't get diverted by her then swinging on her chair when you are implementing consequences for not doing the first thing.

When calm, ask her if she's worried about anything to do with her work that's making her not want to join in properly.

If you notice that you often acquiesce to her desires in your home and that she's used to doing whatever she wants, you are going to have a harder time getting her to concentrate. Are things like daily reading/ weekly spelling and times table practice par for the course, or do you let them go often?

I think it's natural though for even the most conscientious of children to try and get out of work and into play, and I think she's simply pushing her luck given the new situation. Put calm, one-warning boundaries in and hopefully she will stop; emphasise how good it is to get her work done and engage - give specific praise so she wants to do well eg 'You've really made your writing exciting with some fabulous adjectives.'

The way our school does lessons is we have to print all the worksheets in the morning. Then dd attends a live class for an initial say ten minutes then the teacher leaves them alone to do the work. For the first week I left dd and she did no work. As soon as she got stuck on something she left all the work. I then get an email saying work hasn't been submitted, the dc themselves are apparently already trained on how to submit work when I said I couldn't supervise all the time.

Anyway schools stance is most definitely it's my fault if work doesn't get done.
I agree dd is absolutely bored out of her mind. She hasn't seen another dc since early December as we live out the way and I probably am being fairly mean about having high expectations on behaviour. We do have reward charts but even these she seems to get bored of after a couple of weeks and decides she'd rather not get a 'prize' as it's easier to simply be naughty.
Sometimes it feels like all the screen time is also having an adverse effect on her behaviour too. She doesn't seem to sleep too well since homeschooling either,
I will get a fidget toy though that sounds a nice idea.I was raised in a strict respect adults or else environment I haven't got a clue what's right or wrong nowadays so I just go along these lines, I don't praise her enough though for what she does get done so I'll have to try harder on this too.

Try exhausting her physically before school starts. A bike ride, trampolining, skipping, anything to take the edge off.

Give her back the swivel chair. Kids need movement to stay focussed sometimes. Make sure she gets up and moves about and does physical activity in between

@monfri

The way our school does lessons is we have to print all the worksheets in the morning. Then dd attends a live class for an initial say ten minutes then the teacher leaves them alone to do the work. For the first week I left dd and she did no work. As soon as she got stuck on something she left all the work. I then get an email saying work hasn't been submitted, the dc themselves are apparently already trained on how to submit work when I said I couldn't supervise all the time.

Anyway schools stance is most definitely it's my fault if work doesn't get done.
I agree dd is absolutely bored out of her mind. She hasn't seen another dc since early December as we live out the way and I probably am being fairly mean about having high expectations on behaviour. We do have reward charts but even these she seems to get bored of after a couple of weeks and decides she'd rather not get a 'prize' as it's easier to simply be naughty.
Sometimes it feels like all the screen time is also having an adverse effect on her behaviour too. She doesn't seem to sleep too well since homeschooling either,
I will get a fidget toy though that sounds a nice idea.I was raised in a strict respect adults or else environment I haven't got a clue what's right or wrong nowadays so I just go along these lines, I don't praise her enough though for what she does get done so I'll have to try harder on this too.

Yes, at this age, for the actual work you probably do need to be at least around. But that's different to supervising while the teacher is online.

Regular, tailored praise for achieving specific things is worth doing. "Right, DD, you did the entire maths worksheet without complaining and did very well. well done, I'm proud of you."

Or immediate rewards/ positive outcomes, "Please write the story for English - you've got 30 minutes to do it. When you're finished, we'll have milk and a biscuit / we'll go for a walk / you can play with your toys for 15 minutes" etc.

Between school tasks, make sure she's taking "brain breaks". Time to just read/relax and/or to do something active. We give DD little physical challenges eg - can you remember, and show us, 5 yoga poses or can you beat your time for running up the stairs, to your bed and down 10 times or how many times can you bounce the basketball. When weather was nicer, we'd insist they went outside to play for 10 minute as they would at school.

I'm all for respect adults, but the difference is that the times we were around adults and therefore needed constant respect were lower. Certainly, when I was 7 I wasn't spending 24 hours a day with my parents. There was plenty of time for me to just run around with my friends or whatever.

I think many 7 year olds would struggle to pay attention to learning a computer. It's not the same multi-sensory environment they are used to at school and they are more easily distracted.

You are coping with a lot of burdens at the moment so it's only natural that your patience is wearing a bit thin (but you know that getting cross makes it all worse).

So....

Ignore the provocation as much as possible*
carve out a bit of 1-2-1 time with her
make the interaction as positive as you can manage
stock up on the gin!!!

*I was a secondary teacher and swinging on chairs drove me absolutely to despair so I do feel your pain!

Sounds like a normal seven year old to me.

She needs lots of positive praise when she is concentrating; some behaviours can be ignored too, especially for your own peace.

Lockdown and remote learning is hard for everybody, especially the children.

I understand the frustration though, with WFH; just not ideal for anyone.