Car seat confusion, brain fried!

[HeadlessChicken574]

I wonder if any of you kind folk can help me please. I want to buy a Group 1/2/3 car seat (universal ISOFIX), which according to the manufacturer will fit in my car. However I double checked in the handbook and it's completely contradictory. The first part says that universal ISOFIX will fit any car, but the second part suggests that only Group 1 will whereas Groups 2 & 3 require semi-universal. Am I seeing this right? It's one car seat, how can this be the case

IL-SU = semi-universal
IUF = universal

Ah glad you're here Bertie

It caught my eye in Active :o

OMG what a nightmare @Russell19! I should hope the customer service was top notch after that experience!

Thanks so much for your incredibly helpful advice @BertieBotts. I like the look of that Max Way Plus, and yes lots of big reductions on it at the moment. I looked at the dimensions in comparison to our current Maxi Cosi and you're right, it probably wouldn't take up any more space. It is compatible with our car as well so I may be sold on this one.

So grateful for all the wonderful advice I've been given today, thank you all so much. I had no idea there was so much to learn about car seats!

I think part of the confusion here is the expectation of the isofix.
The stage 1 seat, with the 5 point harness is what the isofix is for.
Stage 2 (high backed booster) and stage 3 (booster) use the standard adult belt
So the seat is isofix compatible. It has the 2 metal clips on the rear of the base.
And it is a stage 1 2 3.
Stage 2 & 3 are generally not isofix .
I am not sure if there is a weight limit for isofix?

Just ordered the Max-Way Plus! Spent a while this morning with the baby carrier and the tape measure in the car, I'm very confident there will be enough room. Thank you all so much for the invaluable advice. I was really set against rear facing, but have completely changed my mind thanks to you lot A major thing off the to-do list, and several years peace of mind that my little girl will be as safe as possible in the car.

Brilliant, good decision! I'm sure you and baby will get on with it, we like it
Good luck fitting it, I found it a bit fiddly but got there in the end! There are some helpful YouTube videos. You'll need maximum recline for your baby I think.

Thanks @NameChange30, yes I watched the videos and was a bit
But at least once it's in, it's in!

@MyNameHasBeenTaken

I think part of the confusion here is the expectation of the isofix. The stage 1 seat, with the 5 point harness is what the isofix is for. Stage 2 (high backed booster) and stage 3 (booster) use the standard adult belt So the seat is isofix compatible. It has the 2 metal clips on the rear of the base. And it is a stage 1 2 3. Stage 2 & 3 are generally not isofix . I am not sure if there is a weight limit for isofix?

Yes, that's right. There's a 33kg weight limit for isofix harnessed seats, that has to cover both child and seat.

Booster seats the isofix is always optional, because the belt goes around both child and seat, so the isofix doesn't play a crucial anchoring role any more. It just makes the seat more stable, and means if you have a crash when the seat is empty it won't fly around and injure the driver/passengers. (In a perfect world, you should belt an empty, non isofixed booster in - in reality, hardly anyone does.) Officially, isofix on booster seats is called "isofit" but isofix is often used for clarity.

In the old(er) Groups system like Group 1/2/3, the 33kg weight limit effectively means you can only have isofix up to Group 1. There are harnessed seats up to Group 2 (25kg) under R44/Group system, but they won't be purely isofix, as the isofix system isn't rated for it - you won't get a seat weighing less than 8kg, that's also strong enough to hold a 25kg child in a crash. A lot of them are isofit - like booster seats - meaning they need to be belt secured as well.

With the newer i-size system car seats don't have weight bands any more, so for isofix they take 33kg, subtract the weight of the seat and the remainder is the child's weight limit. So for example you have Britax Advansafix i-size where the harness can be used up to 21kg, or Axkid One which can be used up to 23kg. These in-between weights weren't allowed under the previous Groups system, as the seat has to be Group 1 and/or Group 2, so up to 18kg OR 25kg, not in between.

OP that sounds like a great choice and I'm glad you've found a seat you're happy with :)

Could I possible jump on this thread for some advice as I can see lots of knowledgable people are on it!
My DD has nearly outgrown her first car seat (maxi cosi pebble I think) so I’ve been looking at the maxi cosi Pearl for her next one. Would anyone recommend it? I have a 3 door seat Ibiza so space is an issue but at the moment I climb into the back seat to strap her in so hoping I can carry on doing that. Was looking at swivel ones to swivel to the middle and get her in that way through the driver door (if that makes any sense) but I don’t think I’ll have enough space in my car for those they look huge! Any help greatly appreciated.

I don't think the Pearl rear faces for long. I'd always recommend an extended rear facing seat over any that have to be turned at 18months or so.

June it depends on which Pearl - do you know which Maxi Cosi base you have?

The original Pearl seat is only forward facing so I wouldn't recommend it straight after the baby seat. There are other Pearl seats which are newer (2wayPearl, Pearl Pro, Pearl Smart etc) which can rear face, right up to 18kg, they don't need to be turned at 18 months - but they only fit on the newer/more expensive bases. So it depends which base you've got as to which Pearl seat will fit.

Swivel seats can work in a 3 door car but it's so tricky without being able to go and try them out. Basically you need to find out two things - firstly where is the button to release the spin mechanism of the seat, ie can you reach it from the front of the car, or just the side door, and can the seat go forward facing (some of them are rear facing only, so only swivel to the side).

The second thing you need to find out which is typically only possible by trying it in your car is whether the seat will actually spin or whether the back of it sticks out too much. For example in our old car, Suzuki Swift, which was a 5 door but comes in a 3 door model, I couldn't spin our seat with DC facing the interior of the car, because the back of the seat would hit the door. I could spin it the other way, but that becomes tricky with their legs as they get longer and stick out, although you can just ask them to bend them. Now we have a Peugeot 3008, it spins in both directions with the door closed. Sometimes for example DS1 will get DS2 out across the back seats.

It's not impossible and a lot of people find this a practical solution for ERF in a 3 door, but it is tricky with lockdown.

Another consideration about reusing your base is whether you think you'll have another child and want to reuse it for the new baby.

@BertieBotts
Thank you so much you explain things so clearly! It’s very frustrating not being able to try these things especially with a small car when not everything will fit in.
My current base is the babyfix I believe, I remember them saying it only fits the first car seat so I’ll have to get a new base regardless. Should have got a better one but in my pregnancy haze I wasn’t thinking this far ahead but time just flies by doesn’t it!!
I’ve been looking at the Pearl smart which does rear facing too, and the base for it should fit in my car as I’m hoping it won’t be too different to the one I have currently.
What you say about the swivel seats makes sense and my concern was exactly that there wouldn’t be enough space for the back to fit without hitting the door so it actually won’t be able to twist to the middle which would make it pointless. I think I looked at the joie 360 when I was considering them which does rear facing too I believe but seems very bulky and unlikely to fit in my car. I know the solution (and especially for a second baby in the future) will be a new car but it’s again difficult in lockdown and wouldn’t be pressing if it wasn’t for car seats so if I can find something that fits my current car that’d be the best solution. I’m worried how tricky DD will become to put in rear facing in a three door as she gets bigger because at the moment I just lift her in the seat without a problem but as she becomes more wriggly and headstrong that might not be so easy haha.

Ah I see, yes the Babyfix only fits the infant seats.

Personally I wouldn't bother buying a toddler seat + base combo if you don't already have the base and don't need to move the seat from car to car.

I would look at spin seats or 25kg ERF seats, which tend to take up less space front to back and have lower sides, so much easier to get them in from beside the seat than isofix seats where the sides tend to be high and cocoon-like. I haven't tried myself, but members on the car seat groups (e.g. "Extended Rear Facing (ERF) Car Seat Safety" or "Car Seat Advice UK") report that it's doable to sit with the child in the back seat and when they get older they often climb in themselves. You just have to sit next to them to do up the harness then. The easier models are Axkid Move/Minikid or Britax Two Way Elite/Multi-Tech 3.

The Joie 360 is unsuitable for 3 doors because the button to spin it is at the child's feet, so it's not easily accessible. Britax Dualfix, Silver Cross Motion, Joie i-Spin, Besafe izi turn and Recaro Salia have a more accessible button.

Also, the RF Pearl bases are a bit longer than the Babyfix bases, because they include a rebound bar.

June628
How old is your DD? Do you know what centiles she is on for height and weight?

If you're going to buy a new car at some point anyway, you might as well get one sooner rather than later, but hopefully you should be able to find a good car seat that fits, with the advice of Bertie and/or one of the FB groups she mentioned!

@BertieBotts thank you. I’m really kicking myself now for not getting a base that fits the next size car seat 🤦🏼‍♀️ Even more so should have thought about babies when buying my car but that was a few years before DD haha I was leaning towards maxi cosi because it’ll be easier to fit the base first then out the seat in top as there’s so little space at the back of my car trying to fit a seat with a base already attached (thinking of isofix ones) will be nearly impossible. But the cost of base plus seat will add up. We do also currently move the infant seat/base between cars as we only have 1 but when DD starts nursery we’ll probably need a seat each for emergency pick ups etc so that’s another things to think about.
Unfortunately I don’t have Facebook but I’ll see what information I can access without a log in, thank you for the suggestions.

@NameChange30 DD is around 75th centile for height and weight

@NameChange30 on sorry, & she’s just turned 1

It's not hard to fit a seat with the base attached :) You just kind of bundle it into the back, and then sit on the front seat. It's actually easier in a 3 door car because the front seat can go completely out of the way, in a 5 door car often the front seat is in the way and you're crouching in the footwell swearing at the thing :o

Or look at non-isofix seats. There are belt fitted rear facing seats up to 18kg by Joie, or several which go up to 25kg, which will last even longer. For a 75th centile child an 18kg seat will last until around 3.5 - 4 years whereas a 25kg one will last until more like 6-7 years. You don't have to use it that long of course, but it means if you prefer to wait until closer to 5 to move to a booster seat, you have the option.

OK no worries then on FB, it was just an idea but it will be tricky without being able to search etc.

Most of the second stage seats don't even need a separate base, so it's not a huge problem not to have bought the base that takes the next seat. In some ways this is a win only for the car seat company as it means they have you as an almost guaranteed customer for the next stage.

We got car seats wrong in that we hadn’t appreciated the difference the centiles makes. My daughter is giant legged and was out of her 18kg seat just after 3 so that was an expensive decision as we then got a 25kg one (the max way plus). I have to admit I much preferred our 18kg isofix seat to the maxway . The isofix felt more solid than the tethers and I didn’t love the harness. However, it served a purpose and was perfectly fine. She’s now out of it at 41/2 (but at the average height of a 6yo) but is much more mature and I’m happier to our her into the high back booster now when I wasn’t at 3.

OK, so if you have a child who is bigger than average (in terms of height and/or weight) it makes sense to buy a 25kg seat as that will last comfortably until DC is ready for a HBB. However, while the 25kg seats can be fitted in smaller cars, for a 1 year old you would need a lot of recline, which means if you can fit it in the first place, there would be very little leg room for the adult in front. It would be easier for an older child needing less recline as you could have the seat more upright.

As you are planning a second child, my advice would be to get a 18kg seat now (preferably one that has a relatively tall seat shell, not the Sirona which is shorter). Your DD is likely to outgrow it before she turns 4, and won't be ready for a HBB, so you'll need to get her a harnessed 25kg seat, but by that point you should have a new car with more room to play with, and you can use the 18kg seat for DC2.

Hope that makes sense!

Also i advise you to contact your local specialist retailer, they are probably all closed atm but may well be doing advice and sales by phone and email (ICSC is, they are excellent):
www.carseatadvice-uk.com/specialist-retailers.html

Thanks everyone! The more I look the worse it gets! Didn’t realise a lot of the ones which both rear and front face only use isofix when front facing & need seatbelt attachment when rear facing. Another problem with my car is that the seatbelt is too short to go around the back of the seat, when the shop assistant tried to do it with the infant maxi cosi she couldn’t get it around.
I know a new car is the solution but I’m not keen on buying one at the moment without being able to see/test drive it.
Sigh, the search continues.
Thank you all for the info it’s really helpful.
Anyone think the axkid move would fit it a little seat Ibiza?
Installation videos galore this morning.
@NameChange30 thank you for the link. My local specialist is actually who I got my infant seat from! Will give them a call, such a shame they’re closed at the moment.

@Tiquismiquis thanks for that! Even more to consider with a bigger baby!

The 25kg rear facing seats use way less belt than the ones where you put the belt around the back of the seat, so not so much of an issue for short belts. The seatbelt/isofix combo is usually the case for the cheaper seats, but for more expensive ones it is isofix both ways.

The recline is not too much of an issue, because if you need the recline then your baby is probably not very big and only has little legs, so you can push it right up to the back seat. Then when they're older and can sit more upright, you can move the child seat away from the backrest to create legroom for them. But if you are very very pushed for space, you can do upright + no child leg room. They can put their legs to the side. This normally takes up less space than an infant carrier, so if you can fit an infant carrier in, you should have space to play with a little bit of recline at least.

In small cars be aware Axkid Move is either reclined or it's not, there's no in between, so you can't play around getting the one which is just-reclined-enough to allow naps while giving the most room in the front. You just have to choose reclined (with less front seat space) or upright.

For a 1yo in a small car, the issue is not leg room for the baby, it's leg room for the adult in front.
For example, when DC1 was about 6 months old, we wanted to get a 25kg seat, but after trying several in our car (a Ford Focus) we had to give up, as when they were set up with enough recline for his age, there wasn't enough leg room for a passenger in front. So we went for an 18kg seat, which was slightly more compact and better suited to his age with the adjustable recline, even though we knew he'd probably outgrow it before he turned 4. We always planned DC2 so we figured we'd still get use out of it.

Lack of room for a passenger at the front isn’t really an issue as one of us still sits at the back with DD ( such a PFB) so we don’t really need the front seat but of course that’ll be different if we ever had someone else in the car too (not a problem with covid) or another baby (hoping for new car by then)
So I need to find an isofix both ways, I’ll keep looking. Any recommendations? I think it was a joie one I saw that only did isofix forward facing. There’s just so many out there!
Thank you so much for your help I’m very grateful!
@NameChange30 what are you going to go for when your DS outgrows the 18kg seat you have?