Is this a normal wait for CAMHS?

[VashtaNerada]

GP referred us to CAMHS for DD’s depression in August. Since then there have been a couple of phonecalls from them to ask us questions but no interventions or any kind of plan for DD. We email once every few weeks asking for an update or an estimated timescale but emails are never answered. Is this normal? DD’s mental health is deteriorating and I just don’t know what to say to her.

The service is totally underfunded, my GP referred my DS, they didn’t want to know, we paid for him to see a counsellor privately, they really was no other option.

Feel I have to defend CAMHS. The people who work there are talented and want to help. The service is overwhelmed.

Dsis works as a psychiatrist. It has been woefully underfunded forever.

Demand is increasing for treatment for ASD and ADHD but there are less not more doctors to deal with it. The therapies they need are underfunded as well. CAMHS is not a one stop shop. They refer out to other (underfunded) parts of the NHS.

The pandemic has made waiting times and everyone's mental health getting worse.

The government doesn't give a flying fuck.

That's my impression, ZenNudist.

I think it's a scandal. I really do.

And I think that if it was at a near-critical point before the pandemic, we're facing something quite dreadful now.

I also wonder if we shouldn't be trying to pressure for something.

But what?

What key demands could we make?

From small, achievable demands, that could make a difference, raise awareness, be achieved - and then act as a wedge for what bigger demands?

This is so sad to read. I wish a newspaper would make it one of their crusades and at least raise awareness if not pressure the govt into better funding and resources.

My DD was on the waiting list for CAMHS, after 6 months they said she was at the top of the waiting list and we would be hearing from them very soon. A few weeks later the first lockdown started and they phoned me to tell me they've removed EVERYONE from the waiting list as all staff were being redployed due to covid. Terrible.

Im now early 20's and had an appointment with CAMHS when I was 15 due to serious concerns , I was told Id be put on the waiting list for assessments etc, was never seen again. I had to be diagnosed by my university psychiatrists and learning disability coordinators. My doctors were appalled at the lack of support.

The reality is high caseloads for all and staff with no time to plan for appointments. If you have 6 appointments in a 7.5 hour day, where's your planning time? How do you write your notes? Do you have time to return and make phone calls? Where's the time to seek advice from colleagues?

Yes of course there are incompetent staff, but how much of that is down to the underfunded system and increased demand?

Surprised at the mentions of ASD - in my experience CAMHS wouldn't touch anyone with an ASD diagnosis as that should be dealt with through LA ASD teams, even if the child clearly had MH issues as well. As a SENCO I quite genuinely don't know any family who got useful support from CAMHS sadly, most never even get through the referral process.

@Subordinateclause

Surprised at the mentions of ASD - in my experience CAMHS wouldn't touch anyone with an ASD diagnosis as that should be dealt with through LA ASD teams, even if the child clearly had MH issues as well. As a SENCO I quite genuinely don't know any family who got useful support from CAMHS sadly, most never even get through the referral process.

In my area it’s CAMHS that diagnose ASD (the neurodevelopmental team). After the initial CAMHS appt they would be referred on to the neuro team for an appointment in around a year, which would include being seen in clinic, maybe observation in school or for school to fill in a questionnaire, and complete an ADOS. If they receive a diagnosis, we have an education based team called Language and Communication Team (LCT) that can get involved- school make a separate referral to them. They are an education team, not a medical team and so not diagnose. We do not have an LA ASD team. I’m a primary SENCO. I do agree with your last sentence!!

Unfortunately yes that’s normal.
Even a local private practice near me has a long waiting list due to so many people getting fed up with waiting for CAMHS and willing to pay instead.

Like @Oblomov20 we are in Surrey. It is not just a question of resourcing here. Here CAMHS has a broken internal culture and when they were given an additional £2.3m they spent it on an additional layer of bureaucracy which didn't actually work. There has been a full independent inquiry into their functioning and yet nothing changes or improves.

In our experience there were significant competence, communication and clarity issues and the overall service was very "Vicky Pollard" At dd's first appointment we arrived at 9.15 and the doors were locked because not one member of staff turned up for work until 9.23! We watched. They are a 9 to 5 service but I would venture that if they actually worked 9 to 5 in Surrey, they would have a shorter wait list.

They assess, lose details, offer things that are einaccessible and inadequate then claim the parent has refused the service and close the case. It is a web of malfunctioning deceit and avoidance masked by backside covering assessment and reassessment.

Dd recovered. We had the money to pay and to appoint a private consultant psychiatrist. God help those in Surrey who don't.

An article by Gaby Hinsliff on the growing MH crisis.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/29/teenage-mental-health-crisis-britain-schools-shutdown-young-people?twitterrimpression=true

I'm glad she avoids blaming school closures and arguing that schools returning to face-to-face teaching is 'the' answer.

I think all of us on this thread know it's not.

There's something deep that needs fixing: funding, access (which is also a funding issue), that transition/chasm between child-adolescent mental health care and adult mental health services.

And it's needed fixing for a long, long time but is now - I think - critical.

I just can't stress enough my feeling that we need to generate demands.

Because I fear that if we don't, other people will propose inadequate and wrong 'solutions' to what is going to be an unavoidable problem. And those 'solutions' will not be the ones we would identify as the most helpful.

I know that, at this point, I should suggest one or two things. However, I have to admit my knowledge of MH provision is really just that of a user/parent.

I'm on this thread because I'm currently trying to navigate it all on behalf of my child. And I find it bewildering and alarmingly frustrating - not ideal when, obviously, I'm not at my most resilient and completely stressed about my child. So not really in the best place to find the buckets of resilience I seem to need.

It's weird - it feels like a battle, a complex, maze-like puzzle, to get help. And I'm supposed to be taking on this puzzle/battle just at the moment when I have least emotional resources to do it.

That, in and of itself, is just utterly crazy.

I feel so sorry for those working within CAMHS. Underfunded to start with, lots of additional services that support or absorbed the caseload have also shrunk.
It's not a race to the bottom but my parents, as pensioners can't see the problem, they have had hearing aids, cataracts, stroke rehabilitation, a broken wrist, two way ambulance trip with a sprained ankle, Covid vaccine - all in the last 18months!
Meanwhile there's no midlife health checks for DH & I. I've had a total of 8mins of GP time to cover the menopause (I've been totally floored by it) and it took two years to get through to CAMHS for my teen , by which point I was an internet expert.
In my more crazy moments I think it's a deliberate accounting decision to keep the aged Tory voters happy. I can't bare to talk to my mum anymore about the various out patient clinics and services offered her age group. The local Sure Start Centre was even closed here and maternity classes stopped way before Covid. Apparently you get a load of videos to watch!

@TheFaithfulBorderBinliner

I feel so sorry for those working within CAMHS. Underfunded to start with, lots of additional services that support or absorbed the caseload have also shrunk. It's not a race to the bottom but my parents, as pensioners can't see the problem, they have had hearing aids, cataracts, stroke rehabilitation, a broken wrist, two way ambulance trip with a sprained ankle, Covid vaccine - all in the last 18months! Meanwhile there's no midlife health checks for DH & I. I've had a total of 8mins of GP time to cover the menopause (I've been totally floored by it) and it took two years to get through to CAMHS for my teen , by which point I was an internet expert. In my more crazy moments I think it's a deliberate accounting decision to keep the aged Tory voters happy. I can't bare to talk to my mum anymore about the various out patient clinics and services offered her age group. The local Sure Start Centre was even closed here and maternity classes stopped way before Covid. Apparently you get a load of videos to watch!

I agree with you that children's services are shockingly bad in general.

Speak to anyone with a disabled child.

It is so short sighted. And costs the tax payer more in the long run.

Waited 2 years. The consultant was brilliant when we got to him. But we have another year to wait for EMDR which is one of the treatments he prescribed. We have the medication now though.

We gave up when we heard the wait was 6 months + and went a Private, after about 12 months they phoned to offer her group therapy, which is the one thing she told them in the assessment phone call she wouldn’t do.
They were utterly useless for us

They assess, lose details, offer things that are einaccessible and inadequate then claim the parent has refused the service and close the case. It is a web of malfunctioning deceit and avoidance masked by backside covering assessment and reassessment.

^^

This is exactly our experience in the south west too.

TheFaithfulBorderBinliner - That is such a useful thought-experiment (comparing health-provision to different sectors).
I agree, it's not a race to the bottom.
But it's just ... enlightening to compare

• access to health provision for different sectors/age groups

and

• provision of physical/social health support and mental health support.

The difference is staggering - and also gives an idea of what we need.

'Accessing' CAMHS doesn't feel like 'accessing' at all. It doesn't feel like an opening door, with support to identify and access necessary services, which then come to meet you, in the most helpful way.

It feels the exact opposite - beginning a long quest to negotiate complex barring mechanisms, through a murky, structure, with no map.

And, of course we know it's largely down to funding - the 'barring' is because provision is just scant - often excellent if you reach it, but in such short supply only the most determined and/or critical do access it.

It's extraordinary.

@LittleRa Here it's a paediatrician that assesses for and diagnoses ASD. Agree LA teams will not diagnose. I've moved counties and been amazed at the difference in how SEND services are run (and horrified by the postcode lottery - one county provides far, far superior support to its neighbour). Didn't realise there was such differences in how CAMHS functioned across England though.

Yes. The interim contact is to see if you are at crisis point or if they need to bump you up the list.

I would urge those with bad experiences regarding waiting times to lobby your MP. It is only the government who can solve the funding issue. Camhs staff, and managers know there is a problem and are desperately trying to do more with less money year on year.

But the problem is made worse by the data the MH Trusts provide which is based around time to first assessment rather than the waiting lists. The CEOs and directors of service are complicit in the manipulation of the figures and they have to start telling the truth. If they cared they would but the situation is one of complete obfuscation.

@Subordinateclause absolutely. Dd had ASD diagnosed elsewhere in the NHS. CAHMS have refused to see her because anxiety is part of autism. We had to go privately to get medication.

Look around for local charities that offer free counselling services for teens or other MH support.

Relate has diversified into counselling for young people and they are very good and rates are means tested.
If you are looking for a private counsellor try to find one who is part of a group/clinic as there may be more accountability.
Go on-line and Google the partners CAMHS works with. You are likely to find many of the associated therapists have private practices.