To settle a ‘discussion’...are A levels harder now than they were 25 / 30 years ago?

[Constancevariable]

Or are the pressures on teens just far greater now meaning that studying is far harder?

I had, foolishly apparently, assumed that studying 3 A levels was still the norm. My view caused upset, because apparently A levels are far tougher than they were in my day. Obviously I didn’t mean to cause offensive!

I’m wondering how my own DC’s future will pan out, they are younger and obviously I’m worrying about the sheer volume of work that they are missing out on at the moment.

If bright kids who haven’t had any disruption to their education struggle with A levels I worry about my secondary aged kids who have had so much disruption.

I had, foolishly apparently, assumed that studying 3 A levels was still the norm

It probably is, for people who plan to go to university, which is probably more than it was 25/30 years ago. Who's saying it isn't?

But there's always been plenty of people who do vocational training, apprenticeships etc at 16, which can also be a good route. Many of the people I know, who did this, have been more successful than those who continued studying.

Plus it seems that, these days, more people do A levels than we did (I did mine in 1992, so it sounds like we're around the same age) and they do more of them. We all did 3 plus general studies but now it seems that 'the norm' if there is one, is to do at least 4 'real' A levels, ie not including general studies.

Plus the results are far higher these days. I got the second best results in our school, which was ABB. The best person got AAB, and both of us could have got into anywhere except Cambridge with those grades, even Oxford.

I don't know what the other girl did, but I horrified everyone by getting a job because I couldn't be arsed with university (I went a few years later on day release as a mature student and got a first so it worked out well in the end).

Now it seems like most students get a string of A* grades, so if A levels were indeed far tougher now, that would mean that today's young people work much harder, are more intelligent and/or are better educated than we were.

But to be honest, based on a lot of the graduates and general youth culture that's around, I'm not sure that's true.

Who’s saying it isn’t? A friend was chatting about their DS who happens to be very bright, they said that they would probably just do 2 A levels, I expressed surprise and I think I upset them, hence the ‘it’s much harder nowadays’ comments / rant!

@Constancevariable

Who’s saying it isn’t? A friend was chatting about their DS who happens to be very bright, they said that they would probably just do 2 A levels, I expressed surprise and I think I upset them, hence the ‘it’s much harder nowadays’ comments / rant!

Everyone i know who did A levels did 3 , or two and a btec

All the local colleges recommend taking 3, most suggest start with 4 and drop one

Now it seems most opt to take 4 or 5 A levels , but 20 odd years ago 3 A level subject's were the norm so possibly they are less demanding per individual A level so more subjects are taken now ?

I don’t k is if I agree with the statement that they’re harder now. I did mine 23 years ago and they were tough but them we had less access to information. It meant spending hours in the library trawling though books finding the right one.

Dd1 did hers last year and we did similar subjects and it seems to be the same level of difficulty. I just think the pressure on kids these days is a lot more than I had.

sounds like your friend's level of "very bright" is... unusual. Most people considering university will have three A-levels, four (or more!) if their school encourages that or one of them is Further Maths

My older son did 4 including FM, plus an EPQ and 3 ASs (statistics, critical thinking, study skills). School has since brought in restrictions and younger son is doing just 3 subjects plus EPQ.

My mum is a recently retired teacher and she thinks they're roughly equal but teaching is better now, so students are more able to do more a levels/achieve higher grades.

I didn't graduate long ago and I did 3 A-levels (4 AS and 3 A2). This was normal.

Now it seems most opt to take 4 or 5 A levels

No they don't. 3 has always been the norm. Quite a few brighter ones used to do 4 or maybe 5 especially for STEM subjects but that's reduced since A levels were reformed just a few years ago and was never 'most'.

The reforms have generally made A levels somewhat harder, I believe, but not so hard that a bright student would need to do less than 3.
And many do 3 plus an EPQ or suchlike.

It's impossible to compare, how would you do it?

But afaik it's still absolutely the norm to do 3 A levels.

I didn't graduate long ago and I did 3 A-levels (4 AS and 3 A2). This was normal.

Yes, that was quite normal a few years ago, when AS was still available. It generally isn't now.

3 A levels is the norm OP and I probably would have also expressed surprise.

However in the current climate with Covid etc only taking 2 does make sense.

It depends on whether they want to go to uni and if so what they want to study there in which case certain A levels will be required along with the relevant grades.

You definitely need three to do biology at Newcastle. Just to give an example.

What is your friend’s child wanting to do after A levels? I’d think either they weren’t quite as bright as they’d been suggesting, or they’d got some really bad advice along the way. Or the parent wants to keep them at home and has talked them into a path that will stop them being able to apply to university.

They're about the same now. There was a spell where the modular nature of the curriculum 2000 A levels certainly made it easier to get higher grades - although the content may have been a similar difficulty. Rightly or wrongly all of those reforms have now been reversed though.

30 or so years ago, the norm was 3 A levels, the only people I knew doing 4 were doing maths & further maths as two of them.

Then more recently, with AS exams, the 'norm' became start with 4 with a view to dropping one after the first year.

Now it seems to be 3, or 3+ EPQ or 4 if brighter, or even 4 + EPQ.

And that is if you are doing A levels. Only about 50%(?) do A levels.

I would say it seems unusual to do just 2 A levels and nothing else. That wouldn't count as 'full time' for funding purposes.

Methinks she (OPs friend) doth protest too much.

I remember being surprised at the support materials allowed now, such as copies of texts. 40 years ago, you were allowed your choice of pen and that was it.
Three is the norm, there was an expectation ten years ago that bright children took four or five, but that fizzled out. Most unis want 3 good grades, or extensive other experience.

I'm not sure if the're harder or not, but in STEM subject, a lot of harder content has been removed in the last 30 years (since I sat mine).

I don't think they're harder. I think young people have much better resources available to them, such as the internet, past papers, revision methods etc, than were available in the past. I did my A Levels in 2009 and even then it wasn't like it is now.

I wouldn't say that A Levels are harder, more than the competition is tougher. So, in the past, you may have been happy to simply pass - whereas now you need the top grades, plus the best interview technique, to stand a chance of the place you want. This is the case because it's now the automatic route to go to university, and it's people who choose not to who are in the minority. In the past, even A Levels would have been an unusual thing to do, with people who took them being branded as clever. Now, it's pretty much assumed that that's what young people will do.

So the competition for university places, and later the job markets, is huge. Pressure is on young people to get the best possible grades, which means that have to outperform each other if the grades are awarded proportionately.

So no, A Levels are not tougher - but the demand for higher grades is.

I would agree on demand for higher grades.
I got into Cambridge with A,A,B. (and O levels of half As and half Bs)
The standard offer for places like Bristol/Exeter was BBC.

Grades now need to be considerably higher.

I did my A levels in 1979 in a bog standard comprehensive. Only a small proportion of children stayed on for A levels. Of those who did, most did 3. I was one of a few who did general studies as a 4th.

The same year a friend at a different school (independent) did 5: maths, physics, chemistry, biology and general studies. He also did 2 S levels. I don't know if that was standard in his school, but he was very bright, and went on to Cambridge.

My friend probably does protest too much! Based on the level of brightness previously alluded to, it sounds like my assumption was not unfair.

I think there is probably something else going on in the background.

@Constancevariable

Who’s saying it isn’t? A friend was chatting about their DS who happens to be very bright, they said that they would probably just do 2 A levels, I expressed surprise and I think I upset them, hence the ‘it’s much harder nowadays’ comments / rant!

Then you're friend's an idiot. 2 A levels isn't enough for university and if the kid is state educated isn't enough for his school/college to claim full Funding for him.

I've seen some of the old style "o" level papers and they were MUCH MUCH harder

But every new generation thinks they are hard done by compared to the last 🤷‍♀️

I did mine in 1985, there were only about 20 of us who stayed on in the 6th form and most did 3 A levels. I dropped history because it was just not for me, so I ended up only doing 2 in the end - got two As though yay.

Yeah we had some doing general studies - you couldn’t study or revise for it if I recall, you just had to take your chances that a subject you were interested in came up.

I must say, studying for 2 and doing all the coursework and exams nearly killed me!

I did 3 + General Studies (1984) and I now teach one of those subjects to A'level.
I'd say it's the demographic in general of the student coming to A levels (and then university) that's changed. And consequently, methodology and assessment have changed.

@ivfbeenbusy

I've seen some of the old style "o" level papers and they were MUCH MUCH harder

But every new generation thinks they are hard done by compared to the last 🤷‍♀️

Absolutely. I was showing my daughter (A levels next year) my past papers and coursework, and then we looked at some of the stuff she's doing and it's just different- I notice how it's changed with my teaching. Over the last 15-20 years, yes, there's so much more coursework but everything is signposted- there's so much help there.