Anyone else feel like they've lost their faith?

[GooGlit]

As above really.

Regardless of religion or belief does anyone else feel like they've totally lost their faith?

I don't know whether it's just because I'm very low atm or lack of being able to attend church but I just feel... Well nothing really.

I've been a spiritualist for many many years but I just feel absolutely nothing.

Before anyone jumps in with it's a load of codswallop, I just want to say that it's my belief system so if you have anything negative to say specifically about spirits and the afterlife please don't.

I don't mean to sound defensive but I know in general (very broad generalising) MN doesn't seem to be big believers in "woo" stuff.

I don't care what you follow, I'm just feeling very alone but I'm sure I can't be?

I guess when you consider how vastness the universe, then the galaxy and then realise just how much of a very little pin drop our planet is in the grand scheme of the vastness of space, and then to realise if there is any deity, and then to realise the vastness of space, it can become quite disheartening.

Actually , GooGlit, I would like to know what the difference is between having faith and not. I mean I never had it so you who feel you have lost it can perhaps say what the feeling was like to have faith? At one time in my life I tried to turn to God but realised I was fooling myself and I could only approach religion as an idea to be debated. Is it like feeling love or attraction for a particular person?

I don't think anyone should be mocked for belief as it can provide a strong foundation for life and we all need all the help we can get. So I appreciate it must be strange to now feel there is nothing there if you do, it is how I have always felt but still have curiosity about faith and belief.

I've never thought of it that way before Hawkins. Hmmm.

Catey- I'm not sure how to explain tbh. I've never really believed in God but always envied those with faith as they seem to find so much comfort in it at bad times. Then I discovered spiritualism. Where there isn't a God as such. More spirits who watch over us and guide us. It's a strange feeling that I cannot express. It's just there. A belief in something we can't see or science can't explain but keeps us going at hard times and leads us down the right path.

I've lost beloved people and the thought of never seeing them again is devastating and when they were dying it provided comfort to think they'd make their presence known after they were gone. I just no longer have the sense of a presence. I frequent "church" pre lockdown and have had some extremely strong messages that are very personal and impossible to guess as they've been very specific and not just me looking for a link. Down to conversations I've had and even thoughts and ideas I've never said aloud.

I guess it could just be that I am not open to receiving the presence at the moment but, conversely, I have been so low of late that I can't see how they can't be here when I need them most of that makes sense?

It's a feeling of connection and warmth. And great comfort when it's there. And not feeling overwhelmed when things are tough in that it's happening for a reason. To get us where we need to be. To have to experience the hard times and there's a bigger reason for it.

Destiny, fate, whatever you want to call it. We experience what we do because it takes us where we belong.

Don't know if that makes sense?

@GooGlit
My sister was asking why I was acting so strangely and what is wrong with me. I had to stop and think about it for a moment...It feels like I am on a Merry -go- round and it just keeps going round and round...every day is the same. I feel like I am waiting for the other shoe to drop...
The thing that is keeping me sane though is that I believe that God is in control of things and we are in His hands. That is my faith. He has blessed me so much. I think about all the positive things in my life and it's hard to complain.
My mother had a friend who was abused by her husband, her children were taken away from her because she wasn't able to provided for them, and she was only able to scrape by on benefits. She wrote my mum a letter telling her how she felt so happy and blessed because she had Jesus in her heart and she knew He loved her. Well, I love Jesus and have Him in my heart too. I am joyful and content in this but I'm human so I feel unsettled at times
We are going to be, okay @GooGlit...God has a plan for our lives...we may not know what that plan is but we have to believe that He will take care of us. Nothing can take that away from us if we believe...not sickness, lack of money, nor if things don't seem to be going as we planned...it's God's plan for us and we have to trust Him. I pray that you rekindle your faith..you've not lost it, it's there.
Know that GOD understands our prayers even when we don't have the words to say them is one of my favourite thoughts. God Bless

Yes. I feel that covid stole my faith, which, arguably, suggests that my faith wasn't very strong to start with, but I miss it. I don't want to get into an argument with people about whether it is ridiculous to have faith and go to church in the first place and it is hard to explain coherently first thing in the morning. As a nurse, I experienced something right at the beginning of covid that I couldn't understand why God would have wanted that to happen and praying didn't bring any answers to a horrible day. Not being able to go to church definitely hasn't helped. My DC go to Catholic school, and there was an assembly on zoom last week with prayers that almost made me cry because I wanted to believe in it again.

I think periods of feeling alone and abandoned are part of faith. In the psalms, the writer(s) expresses frustration, anger, loneliness, but also hope and love and remembering the good things God has given. Maybe go for a walk, take a few deep breaths in a quiet space, close your eyes and focus on the sounds, smells. I hope you find a way to have peace and hope at this time.

It's a tricky conversation for those of no faith to have so please believe I don't mean to casue any offence in anything I say here. As I respect that you created this thread to ponder your own faith and I respect the importance of how you think about your faith. I tried to think about God in the way you mentioned in your first sentence in the past but realised I was not true to myself. To me there has always been an empty space there . It is not even the God-shaped space some people talk about. Just nothing. No purpose, no plan. I was brought up fairly religious and studied in depth 20 odd years ago to escape my own mind so it is not ignorance. And the escape did not work.

I wrote a whole lot more below but I am going to delete as not relevant to you. I am interested in your last sentence. What would it mean to you to be 'alone' ? Do you think you could not cope with that? Is it because you miss the sense of connectdness?

Also I have been thinking a bit about the unfinality of death in a psychological way. The royal family have their uses because watching Harry detach himself from his family makes me wonder about how he has come to terms with his mother's death. I think he is showing us all a lot of anger. Maybe I am projecting as my mother died young and I think I have a lot of anger. What I have been thinking is that even if we think the dead are gone in the material sense as I do. they are often still there maybe even more strongly as years go by in a psychological sense. But to me not in the spiritual way you perceive.

I have come to appreciate that in fact our relationship grows and changes just as it did when we matured from children to adults with our parents if they survived.

So I contradict myself, I can't believe in a spiritual world -that's what I wrote a lot about being a materialist and deleted - but I do feel a developing relationship with those who are dead. Even to say 'are' dead implies a continuation. As the writer William Faulkner said, 'The past is not dead, it is not even past'. Which is why I brought in Prince Harry, it seems to me he is visibly what? I can't think of the word. Fulminating maybe, must check the meaning. Yeah express visible protest. We all felt so sorry for him when his mother died. It must have made him so mad. Yet she is always there. It is part of the duties of royalty to be an examplar and even thousands of miles away he is acting as one for grief and anger. As I see it, but probably wrong.

This is an aspect of what I mean by personality and experience influencing spiritual or religious feeling. Because my early life taught me to give up on things early rather than late, not to fight to keep people or feelings alive, I am probably attuned to that feeling of emptiness you mention. It just seems natural to me now. I used to torture myself searching for meaning and now I just think it's all the same in the end. If there is life after death, so what? The form of it must be beyond our understanding and there is quite enough to try to understand in our lives as they are. And if not there is no more suffering, so what?

So my instinct is to say allow yourself to concentrate on the small good things in your life, accept slowness, feel your feelings or think your thoughts It's not a bad thing to be alone, you can learn to occupy the space available.

I think I’m feeling opposite to a lot you in that I feel my faith has got stronger during this pandemic. As Muslims we believe whatever happens is from God and it’s this belief that gives me strength. Also after ever hardship comes ease and the patience you endure will be rewarded.

I learned about that when I was doing the studying mentioned upthread, H1978,
but I never understood it. I understand the words but how they can be a comfort fails me. So God or Allah sends you misery and suffering to better you, you're not good enough as you are, you must be tested, what about all the ones who react violently and take out their misery on others. Even to the extent of murder and war and genocide, not enough faith? What if the ease never comes or you give up before the reward? Because you were made weaker in mind body or spirit than others? what if the hardship is way to much for anybody to bear? Or again you are too weak or young or old or mean or selfish as god made you to carry on.

It's always seemed a maxim (which is also prevelant in Christianity, see Sweetpeas' post, and Judaism of course, I was going to say see Job but that's a different lesson isn't it? Not listening to naysayers?) that is only as good or useful as those who believe it.
If you are determined to see every thing as god's plan then it can't fail can it because its preset. While you are alive you have hope , when you die you have some reward. If not you are just making it up as you go along. If you are determined to be positive in the face of everything and happen to have the strength,personality, wherewithall to carry it through then god is good, if you fail along the way well that is your fault. If You can't believe in the usefulness of suffering, you lack the faith - you're out, no eternal reward for you. It's a circular argument isn't it. If you have faith which is a gift from God, you regard all events including suffering as from god and therefore strengthening due to ultimate positive outcome and get some eternal reward. if you do not have faith, but god is allpowerful and made no faith too, you will just suffer to no purpose because that's all there is. Oh yeah I know this is where the shaitan argument comes in. Like I said circular argument.

I respect the psychological strength some people can gain from positivity because it does take committment to follow it through but I have to see it as random as a musical talent, running quickly, baking a nice cake, all can be improved but you have to have something innate and I can only think it is random accident whether you get it or not.

I truly respect those who persevere with no faith as they expect no reward or get no comfort but carry on.

If it was easy to believe, it wouldn't be called faith.

Yes, years and years ago and it has never come back. I'm pretty sure now that what I described as faith then was actually fear and desperation for there to be something that just does not exist.

Is that true HeadphoneProliferation? Following my argument that faith is a gift or talent, some have gifts or talents to a greater or lesser degree and practice them more or less easily with more or less success with more or less delight or resentment. As I understand it faith is not a one off stitc thing, was that not why Jesus was wondering in the desert? to test his faith? Is belief less valuable if it is easy? Would that not be rejection of God's grace or bounty?

You see unmarkedby that it is that sort of fear and desperation induced in would be believers that seems so despicable to unbelievers like me. As i wrote in my first post, I never had faith or belief, despite a pretty rigourous religious education. Never believed it came from a divine being and when I tried practising to work my way out of depression it caused me intense shame. For not being honest with myself. But i have never felt fear of god or judgement - it doesn't exist in my opinion but neither does the love. The poetry and drama does .

I do believe others can hold a sincere belief and faith in many different religions, I just don't understand it. Intellectually, psychologically, culturally it is fascinating; feeling it is something else. If someone tells me they can feel the heat of the sun, I understand, if they say they feel the love of God or even the fear as I was taught as a child (why?) it means nothing to me apart from the meaning of the words.

One of the teachings from my church-going days that actually stuck with me is, that it's harder to have faith during hard times. So, when things are going well, with your health, work, financially, or whatever, its easy to be grateful, its easy to thank God, and your faith is so strong because you're comfortable and somewhat sat back on your laurels.

But when the proverbial hits the fan, its much harder to be thankful, and you start questioning everything, your faith dips and you wonder if you're wasting your time. The teaching goes, and what I have found now, is that this is the time you must adhere to your practice (yoga, prayer, meditation, readings, spiritual study, whatever your practice is). When you get that feeling that you're sat in a gulf of aloneness, that's when you have to dig deep and keep going.

There's a poem about footprints in the sand, when during difficult times the poet says 'where were you god when I needed you? I looked back on only saw one set of footprints in the sand I walked on', and they are told, 'I was with you all the time, I carried you'. Its a bit trite but the point is, you're not so alone as you feel during those times. For me, its about learning to sit with that feeling of faithlessness, of loneliness, and working through it, until I come out the other side.

That discipline is why I thought it would help my depression giving a structure to my life I lacked. And I tried but felt absolutely nothing and came to feel shame for myself as I knew I had no belief. I was listening to someone talk about prayer on the radio and was reminded how again I felt nothing when I prayed just a vague embarrassment to think it could matter what I did. It is just a mystery to me what people mean when they say god talks to them or answers prayers. It must be an inborn capacity . But i can relate more to what you seem to be saying here: you're doing it because you're doing it than to the concept that patience and devotion will get a reward. Unless you mean the reward is faith. then we are back to the circle.

That discipline is why I thought it would help my depression giving a structure to my life I lacked.

I can't say from a traditional Christian belief, more from a yogic tradition. So, discipline is the key - you get on your mat every day. It doesn't matter if you feel like shit warmed up, because you were drinking the night before, you have a bit of a cold coming, or you're tired, you unroll your mat. If its only for ten minutes, that's enough, it doesn't have to be a full 90 minutes of vigorous back bending, and turning yourself inside out.

All these things are life time practices, faith dips and lifts all the time, not every practice or prayer is intensely devotional, or answered in the way you want, or even at all.

All the people that I know, in the esoteric arts, or religious faiths, where they have totally given up after really trying, is where the practice has not been integrated into their life - this is usually combined with the teacher/ leader being put on a pedestal, so faith in the practice or teachings are not being grounded in the individual.

I don't think its the fault of the individual. There's a lot of crap teachers out there, who are only a step ahead of the student, convinced of their own spiritual gift, or just what to make a bit of cash out of it. Equally, if people just want to go to church at Easter and Christmas and the odd Sunday, or just want to go to a yoga class once a month when they fancy it, that's fine. It's not for everyone, but if you want that kind of depth of faith and sense of solidity in your practice, quite honestly, its just bloody hard work.

Faith is hard work, and also a gift- contradictory I know. Faith is harder when you have very specific expectations of god. If you want your friend to recover or your lost cat to come home- it's hard to stay faithful when it doesn't happen.

I think more in terms of there being a pattern of how things are, that we grow and develop from working within that pattern, and that is our purpose/destiny. So my pattern seems to be about community- raising children, volunteering, being a positive influence in the place where I am. Faith doesn't protect me from pain, or mean everything I do works out. It means I keep putting one foot in front of the other on crap days.

And there are days I ponder whether it's all irrelevant, that I should just pursue my own happiness and pleasure. On those days I look back at the fleeting moments when remarkable things have happened, and remind myself that they happen because of day by day adherence to the pattern. One day, they will come again.

I've attended many churches and spiritualist settings over the years (religious family and friends, study etc) but have no faith myself. I've also seen people have their faith challenged or lose it entirely.

It's hard to talk about it so dispassionately because I'm wary of causing offence but usually, ime, the person struggling with their faith is finding it difficult to maintain something intangible in the face of the sheer weight and scope of the tangible. The people who rediscover or strengthen their faith usually do so by reimmersing themselves in it or by bonding with people who share their faith which is hard right now.

For example, I've seen somebody spiritual start to question things. They very much argued the point of strong messages and presences that couldn't be explained. I've been present when these messages occurred and afterwards the person was wholly convinced of how how specific and individual they were, seeing them as proof. As an outsider with no investment, I could see that they were no such thing (I said nothing at all, don't worry) and I watched as they realised the same but then reaffirmed their belief by listening to similarly invested people. They wanted to believe and I wonder if that was the driving factor?

I also wonder what losing faith must feel like. I suppose it's a loss like any other but there must be a peculiar added grief and instability because so much of what's good and positive about humanity is tied, for that person, to faith. Where do you put or find goodness and hope and charity and joy if it was always intrinsically linked to faith? I'm not sure how a person with faith views an atheist like me but it probably seems a foreign concept that I can have as much surety, as much joy, hope, purpose etc as they do but without the framework they rely upon. If the framework goes, do you worry the other stuff will too?

I don't actually claim to know the truth about anything faith related and actually don't express my views to other people or challenge their faith. I have a very religious parent (Orthodox), best friend (Anglican), family member (spiritual) and a pagan DH. There are very many similarities across their faiths and as long as they are harmless and affirming, I make no comment but I do see how unsettling and worrying challenges to faith can be.

My Dad often wobbles despite how devout he is and sees it as part of his faith. He's learned to let the process happen and to let it ebb and flow as it needs. This is very good for his MH too which is inextricably linked to his faith in myriad ways.

I didn’t lose it. I binned it when I was 15.

I grew up a Catholic. Mass every Sunday, communion, confession, confirmation, convent schools. The lot. My brother was an altar boy, but my lack of the requisite genitalia disqualified me from that role.

I always had doubts, but as a science-loving teenager I realised that evidence & data mattered, that the creationism we were taught by priests & nuns was nothing more than fairy tales, and that some adults were not very bright, which is why they believed them.

Any residual faith I retained then fell away and I became a complete atheist who saw religion for what it really was. I haven’t been into a church for any reason other than weddings or funerals since.

I think for me personally I’ve never known any different and when I have questioned certain aspects of my faith, I have always found a satisfactory answer. I guess it’s harder for someone to understand who has never had a core belief.

During these times I find prayer the only way to elevate my anxiety and it brings me such peace and happiness in at describe it. I wish I could share it around but people also have other ways of meditating to calm them.

We ultimately believe that God is good and He does everything for a reason, good or bad and during the tough times when you turn to Him to help you, He will ensure the ultimate reward which is paradise.

I understand the contradiction that if God is good then why do good people suffer but their suffering will be replaced by the wonderful things that they will receive in the afterlife. If you were to read about paradise in books, it’s an amazing phenomenon and well worth striving for.