Should I retrain as an acupuncturist?

[Asparaguspatchkid]

Just that really, would love to get some external thoughts on the pros and cons, and things I might not have considered.

It's a 3 year degree, but can be done as distance learning/in person at weekends only so I could continue to work at my current job throughout.

Some background on me - I'm 32, married and ttc unsuccessfully for 3 years, currently going through IVF, so what happens if I get pregnant is a consideration.

I own my own home with my husband with an affordable but not small mortgage. We recently came into a significant amount of money, so have enough to pay for the course outright if needed, though think I'd prefer to pay in installments from salary (unless not working due ot mat leave).

Have a good London salary at the moment, and think my work may be open to me dropping down to 4 days a week. I like my job, but it's frequently stressful/long hours, so am interested in doing something more flexible and family friendly.

Once qualified I could take on freelance work in my current industry if required.

I am open to more some elements of Eastern wellbeing e.g. Meditation, acupuncture, reflexology but a bit at others, particularly Chinese herbs (after a bad experience with a London acumedic clinic).

Love to get your thoughts!

I’m sorry I can’t answer but I would love to know the connection between fertility and acupuncture. I read a lot of things about it positively affecting fertility or at least people willing to try it x

Ps - sorry you are having trouble TTC, my question wasn’t meant to come across insensitive x

Don't worry, not insensitive at all. I've been having acupuncture for fertility which is how I got thinking about retraining.

Fertility is one of the areas acupuncture has been proven to work for in scientific trials. Pretty much all the IVF clinics I've come across recommended to have it alongside ivf. Obviously you can't do a blind study for acupuncture as you know if you've been poked with a needle or not, so they compare it to "sham acupuncture" where they put the needles in but not the official points, and the real stuff is more effective but the sham also offers a placebo effect.

I wouldn't recommend it because acupuncture is a pseudoscience. I'm not very good at doing links on my phone but there are plenty of articles on the Internet debunking it eg on sciencebasedmedicine.org

This is my big worry... There's a lot of conflicting views on whether it works from trusted sources.

It's one thing to spend your own money on something which may work, but another to spend such a lot of money training and then make a living by charging other people for it...

Sorry if my post was too blunt. I cross posted and hadn't realised that you were using acupuncture yourself. I honestly think that it is quackery and won't help but I really hope that the ivf is successful for you. We spent a couple of years ttc and I know how stressful that can be.

@Asparaguspatchkid

I took the plunge and have just graduated. Probably from the course you are thinking of if it invokes distance learning. I also went on it because of my IVF treatment.

The course was amazing. I loved it.

I'm really enjoying it - even in the current situation!

Feel free to PM me - let me know if you do as I don't regularly check messages.

@cariadlet that's OK, that's kind of why I posted this (though too chicken for AIBU!) to get opposing views. I think my mum would be very much in your camp. I felt like the tide was turning a bit on believes in alternative medicine given how many ivf clinics recommend it, but the articles you recommended are quite damning so something to think about.

@oohmamama that's really brilliant to hear. My acupuncturist has recommended Reading. I was looking at the one I think you're talking about, but she though Reading might be a better fit for me. Did you have any of the same feelings of "does this definitely work?" or did you feel convinced from your own treatment?

I didn't believe in acupuncture until I had it. I see an osteopath every couple of months who uses it alongside electric pulses. It isn't pleasant, especially if my back is particularly bad, but it works. I get an extra couple of pins in my head to help with time of the month.
I would say do it alongside something else. My osteopath has had a life long career in medicine, which is why people trust her - she is ridiculously busy.

I question it all the time. But what I come back to is the improvement I see in patients. I have had around 30 so far and 23 of them have seen at least a 40% improvement in their condition after 3-5 treatments.

There's a great book, written by a medical doctor and acupuncturist called 'the Spark in the Machine which explains acupuncture from a bio medical POV.

There's a virtual open day on Jan 21 for the school I went to - I'm speaking at it! Sign up and see what you think :)

@cariadlet is not really right at all. Acupuncture is recommended by NICE for migraine, tension headaches, osteoarthritis of the knee and is currently about to be recommended for chronic pain. It is undergoing the final draft before being one if four treatments recommended for all types of chronic pain.
The major part of the issue is currently research methods do not work very well for non-pharmaceutical treatments. The gold standard for research needs to include double blinding which is actually Impossible with acupuncture (how can an acupuncturist not know if they are treating someone with real acupuncture, also sham acupuncture that is used as a control during trials is not benign and causes a physiological response.) The most recent thinking is to compare non-pharmaceutical treatments to usual treatment, and no treatment. In these situations acupuncture often performs statistically significantly and efficacy is being shown. I am a proper research geek and love this sort of stuff. The bottom line is that current research methods aren't really fit for purpose when it comes to acupuncture. Yet despite this it has still been proved in a number of cases to be effective and this is expected to risecontinue. www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1472648318306758

Sorry posted too soon. The above link shows a review about IVF which brings up some of these issues at the end.

[quote FuckOffBorisYouTwat]@cariadlet is not really right at all. Acupuncture is recommended by NICE for migraine, tension headaches, osteoarthritis of the knee and is currently about to be recommended for chronic pain. It is undergoing the final draft before being one if four treatments recommended for all types of chronic pain.
The major part of the issue is currently research methods do not work very well for non-pharmaceutical treatments. The gold standard for research needs to include double blinding which is actually Impossible with acupuncture (how can an acupuncturist not know if they are treating someone with real acupuncture, also sham acupuncture that is used as a control during trials is not benign and causes a physiological response.) The most recent thinking is to compare non-pharmaceutical treatments to usual treatment, and no treatment. In these situations acupuncture often performs statistically significantly and efficacy is being shown. I am a proper research geek and love this sort of stuff. The bottom line is that current research methods aren't really fit for purpose when it comes to acupuncture. Yet despite this it has still been proved in a number of cases to be effective and this is expected to risecontinue. www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1472648318306758[/quote]

Nice work 😁

Yes the NICE chronic pain research is massive news! Unfortunately at the end of it - mainly for cost purposes they have said it should be delivered by a certain band of NHS staff as opposed to trained acupuncturists which means in reality the results of the actual practice probably won't replicate the result of the study meaning back to the drawing board! However it is certain to reassure some that acupuncture does work, I get referrals from the local GP just because they see results for their patients.

@FuckOffBorisYouTwat and @oohmamama I think we'll have to agree to disagree. It's only a few years ago that some hospitals were allowing homeopathy on the NHS so I take NICE guidelines with a pinch of salt.

I've heard/read enough scientists dismissing acupuncture (and giving their science based reasons for doing so) to confidently categorise it as pseudoscience.

I know a few acupuncturists, financially work can dry up in a downturn as it’s something people will sometimes cut back on if they are feeling the pinch.