Why are places of worship still open?

[TingTastic]

I’m trying to understand why places of worship are almost unique in remaining open this time (the other being nurseries and playgrounds which are more understandable). What drove this decision? Surely there is a risk of transmission with dozens of people being inside together through a service (even if they are socially distanced)? Especially as a decent proportion will be older

People can pray at home then no church ect. Parents can look after there children all schools closed. Children are spreaders

Mums net likes to talk about MH. Everyone on here says I can’t do this my MH. Maybe people need it for there MH

Mums net is crazy people asked the most stupid questions “”WHY “”WHY “but I want”

@AlexaPlayWhiteNoise

Churches aren't open for services. They are open for private prayer. Usually under an incredibly strict pre booked system, where you're allocated a pew/seat, and allowed to stay for a prescribed amount of time. With a one way system, and then the whole area being completely disinfected after the person had vacated.

There is no music, no singing, no clapping, no candles, no prayer books, no communion, no sharing the peace (or anything else!), No taking of money, And nobody within six foot (minimum) of each other. Temperature taken on entry, track and trace information already logged, hands santitised on entry, wearing masks at all times.

And then once everyone had left, we completely dettol the place. And it's left for three days.

Church funerals are incredibly hard to do, trying to make the last practical thing you can do for the deceased as lovely as possible. Whilst being incredibly conscious of all the covid rules and guidelines and trying to be as kind and compassionate to the family as humanly possible. It is horrible. And exhausting.

Churches ARE open for services in England if they choose to be

@AlexaPlayWhiteNoise

Churches aren't open for services. They are open for private prayer. Usually under an incredibly strict pre booked system, where you're allocated a pew/seat, and allowed to stay for a prescribed amount of time. With a one way system, and then the whole area being completely disinfected after the person had vacated.

There is no music, no singing, no clapping, no candles, no prayer books, no communion, no sharing the peace (or anything else!), No taking of money, And nobody within six foot (minimum) of each other. Temperature taken on entry, track and trace information already logged, hands santitised on entry, wearing masks at all times.

And then once everyone had left, we completely dettol the place. And it's left for three days.

Church funerals are incredibly hard to do, trying to make the last practical thing you can do for the deceased as lovely as possible. Whilst being incredibly conscious of all the covid rules and guidelines and trying to be as kind and compassionate to the family as humanly possible. It is horrible. And exhausting.

They can be, and in many places,are open for services in England but you need to book. Singing is still taking place in some via choirs,or at least no instruction has yet been given to stop.

The rather unhelpful line to C of E clergy is that they should make their own call on whether to open. Plenty of clergy are not happy that the buck has been passed to them.

The inescapable point is that people will need to make a journey to get there and be alongside others when we've been told to only make essential trips. This isn't essential and sends the wrong message. There are lots of creative services being streamed on line.

@happystone

Mums net likes to talk about MH. Everyone on here says I can’t do this my MH. Maybe people need it for there MH

But we need to see the bigger picture. The best thing for everyone's MH is to get the pandemic under control so we can ease restrictions and eventually get back to normal.

The more we shilly-shally and make exceptions for this, that, and the other, the further away we push that goal.

@ClinkyMonkey

It is not faith bashing to genuinely seek to understand why faith and religion are prioritised in this way. You'd need to have a particularly large chip on your shoulder to be that defensive. Surely it's reasonable to expect that communal worship be put on hold until this situation is resolved. You can't use your own personal experience of Covid safe church attendance to speak for every church in the country.

I think often on MN, there are posters who insist that public worship is essentially a hobby, the same as going to the football, for people who are into that kind of thing. From the faith perspective, public worship might be considered an essential part of their life, ordained by their god, essential to nourish and safeguard their soul for example (I won't put words in the mouth of every person of faith, this will differ between religions anyway). In my experience, these threads often turn into the first kind of poster insisting that it is just a silly hobby and a very silly one at that, so no productive conversation is had. There have already been plenty of hostile and sarky comments on this thread. To try and answer the question in good faith, I would add that (like it or not) religion is a big and inextricable part of this country's history, and spiritual needs (of various varieties) are catered for in hospitals, prisons and schools. The government understands that faith is deeply important to many people, and that public worship is part of that. I'm not here to have an argument about whether it should or shouldn't currently be allowed, I'm just hoping to help answer the question about why it is treated differently to the theatre or the footie.

For alot of people the act of prayer or worship is very closely tied to their religious building.
While you can physically pray at home, for many its a real struggle. Much like you can exercise at home, but many people prefer a gym.
My church is open, but has streamed every service since Easter, has removed pews to make social distancing possible, kids corner packed away, no singing, masks mandatory and most importantly our Priest has asked each person to think seriously about their attendance and its possible impact on others. We have a preschooler and I am still going out to work, therefore our risk of spreading is higher and we are staying away.
For some members of the congregation, the one service a week they are attending is the only face to face social interaction in their life right now.
There are risks and benfits to every area of society being restricted by Covid, and if you are not a religious person it is easy to underestimate the benefits found by those who are.

I would question whether any deity that isn't able to make an exception for followers being unable to worship communally during a pandemic is worthy of being worshipped.

They were closed in the spring when gyms were open. Why?

@SomewhatBored

I would question whether any deity that isn't able to make an exception for followers being unable to worship communally during a pandemic is worthy of being worshipped.

It's not about "God will be angry with us". It's about "we need this and it hurts to be apart from it". (Massive oversimplification, but just by way of a response).

Our synagogue has been closed for quite some time (since first lockdown). We o my meet via Zoom now.

It's not about "God will be angry with us". It's about "we need this and it hurts to be apart from it".

Yes, I can see that, but everyone (who is following the rules) is in a similar position - it hurts not to be able to see family and loved ones, it hurts children not to be able to go to school. Sometimes we have to recognise that something is painful, but endure it anyway.

@SomewhatBored

It's not about "God will be angry with us". It's about "we need this and it hurts to be apart from it".

Yes, I can see that, but everyone (who is following the rules) is in a similar position - it hurts not to be able to see family and loved ones, it hurts children not to be able to go to school. Sometimes we have to recognise that something is painful, but endure it anyway.

I don't disagree with that.

I'm not in the least bit religious but I can't honestly begrudge people their place of worship if it brings comfort to them.
We've all had things we value taken away from us, but does that mean we should seek to snatch everything away from everyone?

They can be, and in many places,are open for services in England but you need to book. Singing is still taking place in some via choirs,or at least no instruction has yet been given to stop
Our instruction was absolutely no singing, especially not in choirs

The rather unhelpful line to C of E clergy is that they should make their own call on whether to open. Plenty of clergy are not happy that the buck has been passed to them.
I agree.

The inescapable point is that people will need to make a journey to get there and be alongside others when we've been told to only make essential trips. This isn't essential and sends the wrong message. There are lots of creative services being streamed on line.
I agree. The problem we have had specifically is that the ones who wanted to attend in person are mostly the older, less tech savvy parishioners (who are also on their own) are unable to join in the online services. It's been a really fine line to walk trying to keep them included and respect their wishes whilst also keeping them safe. We've had some success at setting some up online, so we're getting there.

@SomewhatBored

It's not about "God will be angry with us". It's about "we need this and it hurts to be apart from it".

Yes, I can see that, but everyone (who is following the rules) is in a similar position - it hurts not to be able to see family and loved ones, it hurts children not to be able to go to school. Sometimes we have to recognise that something is painful, but endure it anyway.

OK, but like I said before; I can't remember seeing any posts in the spring when gyms and pubs were open but churches had to stay closed asking why. Nobody said "but you can drink, eat and exercise at home please open churches instead".

To give you a working example of this ridiculousness, my Mother was worried about picking up a library book she ordered online, which required her to stand near the door of the library where it was brought out to her.

In astonishing contrast, she has been going to mass every Sunday and even went to an ecumenical service at the local cathedral where she was a minister of the Eucharist and handed out bread to a line of strangers.

My Mother is very good at hypocrisy though, I think years of being a practicing Catholic has finely honed her skills.

100 percent places of workshop should close.

I'm very religious, I miss my communal religious life terribly. But I'm seeing a generation of children having their education disrupted and well-being put at risk. If schools are shut, religious people can cope.

The community I'm part of has been terrible for ignoring the rules and spreading the virus. Keeping a communal meeting point open is not helpful.

I thought so too, but I’ve heard several people talking about going to church since Monday’s announcement and I’m pretty sure I read the guidelines saying so too.
I’m Mass attending Catholic and went twice when the first lockdown ended and haven’t been back- it just feels reckless.

It's a bit disappointing to see a lack of recognition here that freedom of religion (which includes the freedom to practice communal worship) is a basic human right. Even if you are not religious, if you are committed to upholding human rights then you shouldn't trivialise people's right to freely worship.

We are facing a situation where many of our civil or human rights (right to liberty, right to freedom of assembly) have to be suspended to protect other people's right to life and ability to access healthcare. What the government is trying to do with the restrictions, I think, is to strike a balance, such that infections are controlled, with the minimum number of fundamental freedoms affected. So they have made a judgment that on balance, worship - if done in accordance with Covid guidelines - is not a significant enough driver of infection that it justifies suspending this very important right. That balance seems right.

Some religions cannot be fully practiced without a communal setting - e.g. communion is a fundamental part of my life, and I can only receive this in a communal setting, from a priest. In Judaism, some services need a minimum number of people to be physically present to go ahead.

FWIW I would support suspension of communal worship if there was good evidence even "Covid-secure" worship was a significant driver of Covid transmission. But there isn't to my knowledge, and the churches I have been in since worship resumed have all taken infection control measures very seriously.

Also worth reflecting that Christianity in particular has a long, long history of operating underground from people's homes. It's better to have worship in public places in a Covid-secure way, rather than drive it underground.

I can’t quote this post for some reason, but was there actually a time when churches were closed but gyms and pubs were open? I don’t remember that, I thought pubs were one of the last things to open

AlexaPlayWhiteNoise
Our instruction was absolutely no singing, especially not in choirs

If the service is being live streamed then choirs are allowed,socially distancing.

Most,if not all,cathedrals have been operating on that model. Sometimes with child choristers,sometimes with adult singers.

MrsBobDylan
My Mother is very good at hypocrisy though, I think years of being a practicing Catholic has finely honed her skills

Because there is more to life and death than Covid.
There is almost so nuance at all to the government's approach but at least here there is a small amount.