How did I grow up not racist/homophobic etc when my parents were?!

[vminkookie]

I'm in my forties, my mum is in her 70s.

My childhood was okay, worst thing that ever happened to me was being smacked but that was not often and normal among my peers at the time.

Parents (dad now long dead) were never overtly anything but there was a drip feed of racism and homophobia and bias against certain groups.

I remember my dad telling me he would disown me if I came home with a black man. My mum tells me he 'loathed' homosexuals though I don't recall him ever saying anything - he was never a verbose man.

A massive childhood memory of mine is my Nan telling me that black people were brought over to help us but now we don't need them anymore they should all go home. I remember telling her that was unfair and she fell out with me for weeks - I was about 9!

Constant 'little' racist comments over the years from my mum. We lived in a very white area so anyone who did not conform to that, according to mum, did not belong for a variety of ridiculous reasons.

I was not allowed to play with the kids off the council estate even though they were friends from school because they were 'rough' - my mum grew up in council houses!

My mum had (and still does) a massive disdain of anyone who claimed benefits long term. She worked at the local authority assessing benefit claims!

Fast forward to now. We are mum's bubble and I visit, sort out her shopping etc. I mildly resent it but that's probably another thread. I popped in with some shopping and stayed for a coffee on NYE.

Conversation included -
BAME should not get the COVID vaccine, they should all 'go home'.
She likes Rylan Clark-Neal even though he's gay.
She hates Steph McGovern because she's a lesbian and lesbians should not have children.
Relief that Brexit is finally happening, now we can stop immigrants.

That was quite a full on conversation of hate tbh, it's not always that heavy, but she has got worse as she's got older. After each comment I tell her to stop being racist, homophobic or whatever it is she's going on about that day. It's so frustrating. I'm fed up of arguing about it.

Anyway, the question is, how did I grow up with such opposing views when this bullshit has been fed to me my entire life? My sister too, she did vote Brexit but not for immigration reasons (and now regrets it) but otherwise she thinks like I do.

I didn't vote Brexit, I don't vote Tory (mum does), I don't read the Daily Mail (mum does), I don't judge people by the colour of their skin, I make a lot of additional income writing gay romances on top of my days job (but have not told mum this as I cant face the reaction, but maybe I should?), I don't care what benefits people may or may not be on as it's not my business. I could go on.

Has anyone else had a similar upbringing but not taken on the beliefs?

I agree with namechange.
My parents aren't like this. They are loving and Non racist. But I recognise the idea that I grew up in a safe school environment with fundamentally nice parents.

"was shocked because it genuinely had never occurred to me that she would feel this way because I've never experienced it and had no clue. "

I was the same. Embarrassing now, but it never even occurred to me at the time!

DH's family are quite racist and he is not. He seems to have been more influenced by peers but he also got the brains in the family.

I’m mixed race born in the 1960’s. My Mother was not a nice person however she was not remotely homophobic or racist. She had been a ballerina when young and also on stage so had lots of gay friends.

Sex between men was completely illegal until 1967, it was still illegal in Scotland till 1981 and NI till 1982. Lesbianism was never illegal. Even when it was made legal there were for some years addendums such as being over 21. So whilst it is unpalatable it is really not that surprising that some older people may struggle with it. It’s not an excuse but it adds context. It may be a shock but it was a Conservative peer who first tabled trying to stop homosexuality being illegal in 1965.

Again it was acceptable to be racist when they were young, again it’s awful but it needs context though again it is not an excuse. You know some of the biggest anti immigration spiel given out was by the Trade Union movement, the left. That was about driving down wages and the sentiment that they would ‘take our jobs’. I was a trade union activist for years and was sent on day release paid for by my union and studied the history of trade unionism as well as employment law.

We are not just influenced by our parents although many are, more and more influences are outside the house than even 20 years ago.

You could have the same conversation about different views or behaviour of siblings as well. You would never have believed my uncle and my dad were brothers if you had ever met both of them.

I find this thread so scary. I'm white but DH is black and DS mixed race. I hate the thought of my beautiful son facing any of this thinking. I'm so upset when DH is subject to overt and subtle racism but he's the strongest person I know. 😢

vminkookie in the area I grew up I was almost always the only non white person, all my siblings were white as my Mother bless her married four times, divorcing each man when they irritated her. Was your friend upset because she was subject to racism?

I have never given a crap about being the only non white face, the only time I have got upset is when anyone is racist towards me. Which has happened to my face on numerous occasions back in the 1970’s and 1980’s though not for many years now.

I lived in London and Birmingham when forging my career but ended up on the edge of the North. I commuted in to a city but live in a small ex mill town where it is extremely white. I did have a neighbour who was not white, he absolutely hated Eastern European immigrants. He has moved now I joked to my son that we were the only non whites on our road again, he is only a quarter so he always says my left leg agrees.

I am always quite fascinated by people petrified of moving out of multi cultural areas. Many years ago I can see why it was an issue but times have changed.

@Fastforwardtospring

My father was the same, racist to the core, he’s dead now, prior to his death he lived a few hours drive which suited me as I didn’t want my kids to hear his racist views. My kids have many different cultures as friends and teachers, they will never describe a person by their colour,

What's wrong with describing people by their colour? I remember a job I started when I was in uni, a summer job. We were all working at a summer camp down in England. Of about 25/30 staff, everyone was white apart from one black girl and one girl of indian descent. Obviously having all started at the same time and only a couple of days in, we didn't know everyone by name. The girl who was of indian descent, let's call her Sarah, and I were talking about another girl (the black girl, let's call her Anna), as it turns out they had been put in the same group and 'Sarah' was asking me who 'Anna' was. She said she had asked a few of the others earlier and they had tried to describe 'Anna', you know, tall girl, brummie, long hair etc but 'Sarah' still couldn't place her. I said you know, the black girl..? Instantly Sarah knew who Anna was but then she looked confused and a bit hurt to be honest, saying ''I wonder why they didn't just say that?'' I think it made her feel a bit othered to be honest, like they couldn't say what was glaringly obvious to Sarah because of her own colour or something...?

So my question is, if say someone couldn't place another person, why is it wrong to describe someone from their colour? It is the most prominent feature I would assume. I wouldn't mind (and I'm sure they did at that camp) mind if they had described me as the Scottish girl or the red head, as that's what I am and it's my most prominent feature amongst a bunch of English, non redheads. I'd rather be described as the Scot than them falling over themselves, tying themselves in knots to describe me as you know, the medium build girl, blue eyes, y'know, freckle on her right cheek. What a palaver.

@Valkadin sorry to worry you.
Hopefully a lot of this will die out with the older generations. I live in a very middle class mostly white town now and the black and Asian people who live here now (the ones I know) experience nothing negative related to race. Obviously they won't met my mother!

Education counts for a lot. If yours comes from The Sun and The Mail you are very vulnerable.

I agree. My parents would some times the odd racist remark but they weren't out and out racists if that makes sense. Studying sociology at school enlightened me to the inequalities that exist in society. For example I was always led to believe that black people committed more crime however studying sociology made me realise that they're more likely to live in deprived areas, to become the focus of police attention etc.... It taught me to quest job things and look at other perspectives.

Question things that should say.

My brother is every “ist” going.
My mum is racist and a bit homophobic, my Dad was just homophobic.
I like to think I’m neither ( although my teen DD claims I’m Transphobic)

As for describing people by colour it’s not something I would do BUT I remember a conversation with my a Friend from Jamaica (who is black). She asked where DD was and I said she was over there behind that boy. She asked which boy, I said the one in the red jumper.
She said, “ they are all in red jumpers Hopping, it’s a uniform”
Me - “errrrrrrrrr”
Her “ she’s behind that black boy isn’t she?”
Me “errrrrrrrr”
She explained it’s ok to say black and white and she hates “ of colour” but I appreciate that’s just her view on it so I still don’t do it.

I really struggle to understand this, I too have a very homophobic father. He once went to Cape Verde on holiday, came back and said ‘it’s full of gays, won’t go there again’ after probing a bit deeper it turned out in a massive complex of 500 bloody rooms spread over 2 resorts he saw 2 gay couples.

It’s so far from logic that it actually causes my brain pain when I try to dissect it. He’s an engineering manager who runs multimillion pound production lines for very popular products, fantastic career with varied people.

Yet, here we are, he cannot for the life of him put himself in their shoes. I often say ‘how would you feel if someone told you you couldn’t be with DWife? For no actual reason, just that.. nope, not her’

There’s always no answer given because there isn’t one.

My family and community were very similar to your op!

My family get hugely offended if you dare suggest they might be racist, they don't think they're racist (even after saying the most racist things) they just think they're right.

I would like to think I'm not racist, but quite frankly, I probably am in ways I don't realise. You don't grow up swimming in this sea without being polluted with some of the poison. In my defence, I don't think it's my fault if I'm racist, what is my fault though and 100% within my power is to try my very best not to be racist. To examine my own views, question and challenge them, to take on board other people's opinions. Unconscious bias is definitely a thing and its ridiculous to try to pretend it isn't.

Their views are fairly typical of uneducated white working class people of their generation. My own elderly parents are from similar backgrounds and have similar views. They also read the Fail, and voted Leave, unsurprisingly.

As long as they are not overtly racist or homophobic in my presence, I try to understand the reasons why they hold such abhorrent views, but it’s not easy.

They grew up in the post-war years in a very different world, one in which almost everyone looked like them, spoke like them and thought like them. Now, when they walk around the town in which they grew up, they see a place which they no longer recognise as Britain, and in their view nobody ever asked them if this transformation was what they wanted.

I'm going to take exception to your charactisation of the working class as racist. I don't see any evidence that middle class people are any less racist, indeed the OP is middle class herself. If you want to look at absolutely prize racists look no further than our great leader Boris Johnson. And the country's top racist... (drum roll) ... horney handed working class man of the people... Nigel Farage!

One think I do agree on (and I admit, my own biases may be coming into play) is that young people do seem less racist than older people. And I say that as an older person myself. Unfortunately older people like to ridicule younger people for this (snowflakes).

I'm in the same situation except my mum is a BAME immigrant and has unacceptable ideas about where people from each country rank. I am NC and my children have never met her and this is part of the reason why.

I think you make a conscious choice, my dad was biased against anyone that wasn’t like him, women, BAME, gay, Irish, from the North, Londoners etc. I remember getting told off at a young age for saying that black people cant sing in front of a mixed race daughter of my mums friend and struggling to understand what I’d done wrong when I heard those comments all the time. That was a bit of a turning point and I started to think for myself. It does affect you though I still occasionally have to challenge myself as to why I think something and check it not just because of views I was saturated in at childhood.

I had this with my dad whose now late 60s. From a very young age and it was said several times to me also.... 'If you bring back a black man I will disown you if I don't kill you first'. No surprise he is also homophobic too. Luckily I didn't pay any attention to any of it, he was talking out his arse. He's still the same now and there's no talking to him about it either, he doesn't listen or care

You grow up in the culture of your generation as well as the culture of your family. From 80s onwards there was a strong anti-racist, anti-homophobic element to youth culture.

Plus with a larger black and Asian population and more out gay people, way more people have encountered the 'other' now and realise there's nothing to be scared of. Your parents' generation had more limited exposure.

People overall are less homophobic than 50 years ago, which suggests that many people are less bigoted than their parents. Although unfortunately that is not the case in all communities.

Studies have shown that prejudice and right wing views are down to a lack of intelligence rather than upbringing.

Argh zombie got me