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Why is an item looted by the Nazis now "owned by the German government".

19 replies

Dilbertian · 30/12/2020 19:01

Where ownership can be proven and traced, other items looted by the Nazis, such as works of art, have been restored to the descendants of their owners, so why not these church bells?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55474030

OP posts:
ThatIsNotMyUsername · 30/12/2020 19:04

They didn’t want it sent to ‘the east’ (although I could see that being east Germany but not Poland?)

fallfallfall · 30/12/2020 19:07

looks like it's being sent back now, isn't that a good thing?

june2007 · 30/12/2020 19:11

Well it is going back to Poland so that is good. But I think I rather German government had looked after it then the former USSR. (which Poland was part of.)

Theunamedcat · 30/12/2020 19:14

Its still "owned" by Germany though? Despite being looted

Dilbertian · 30/12/2020 20:23

When it does finally arrive at St Catherine's church, it will be on permanent loan as officially it is now owned by the German government.

Why have they not relinquished that dubious and ultimate ownership of the bell, once its rightful owners traced it?

It was the English who prevented its return ' to the east'. Thatimplies the Soviet-controlled East Bloc, which of course included Poland.

OP posts:
PaddyF0dder · 30/12/2020 20:27

So... are we going to mention how British museums got their possessions?

RickiTarr · 30/12/2020 20:28

I suspect it’s something along the lines of the identification of the bell only being about 98-99% certain. So they’ve dreamt up “permanent loan” as a legalistic fudge to enable the bell to be returned without the legal risk that they are giving away someone else’s property.

Industrial scale looting tends to cause these little dilemmas.

LeGrandBleu · 30/12/2020 20:30

Like PP, with this reasoning, the British Museum would be empty

Theunamedcat · 30/12/2020 20:33

This isn't a race to the bottom why does everyone always blame the British well the British did it so its clearly ok yes this is wrong but LOOK AT WHAT THE BRITISH DID Hmm

happytoday73 · 30/12/2020 20:35

I agree it's a farce. There is no reason for the German government to not say its yours... Have it back...
I don't see what it has to do with the British.... Then and definitely not now Poland is a free country again (which is what the British went to war for in the first place but then 'forgot' about)

Lemonpiano · 30/12/2020 20:40

Well, on this occasion it was Britain that had prevented it being returned:

The diocese said that British military authorities had banned the return of bells to the east, and instead they were loaned out to parishes across the old West Germany.

So that's what it has to do with Britain.

june2007 · 30/12/2020 20:44

Well if it had gone back to the easy in 1945 not sure if it would have gone back to the church when Christians were being presecuted byt the communists.

happytoday73 · 30/12/2020 21:07

Christians being persecuted by communists... Yes absolutely... Because Britain gave Poland to them.. You can have the country, persecute the people but can't have the bell....

user1471565182 · 31/12/2020 02:06

Theres loads of this goes on. Switzerland is full of the stuff. The received wisdom is that a good job was done of de-nazification but its a lot of old shit.

user1471565182 · 31/12/2020 02:15

Funny isnt it, UK stop the communists in Greece in 1945 and has to hear endless shit about it forever. It leaves Poland alone in 1945.... and hears endless shit about it forever.

The Soviets were rebuildings the church in the 40s. You can see Orthodox priests at Stalins funeral and even religious icons were used in red army propaganda.

user1471565182 · 31/12/2020 02:20

Stalin was afterall a trained priest.

tass.com/society/944529

Ylvamoon · 31/12/2020 02:32

At least they will be returned.... unlike some other famous looted artefact:

metro.co.uk/2020/11/04/stephen-fry-asks-uk-return-elgin-marbles-from-british-museum-13534742/

user1471565182 · 31/12/2020 02:53

Funny, the parthenon was used as a bank, a mosque and to store gunpowder until western experts came along and they realised it could be worth something. Half of Athens was built on reused marble torn from 'sacred artefacts' until the 19th century.

Ylvamoon · 31/12/2020 08:58

Funny, the parthenon was used as a bank, a mosque and to store gunpowder until western experts came along and they realised it could be worth something. Half of Athens was built on reused marble torn from 'sacred artefacts' until the 19th century

That makes not returning the Elgin Marbles all right then!

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