Can’t shake this feeling - credit card fraud

[BalaamsAss]

Woke this morning to an email from a company we have a weekly subscription with, to say that our credit card payment had been declined.

Really odd, and while the email looked totally genuine I took all the correct precautions and logged on via the website rather than clicking a link in the email, and input the CC details again. It was once again declined.

DH then checked the CC on the app and discovered 3 transactions we hadn’t made - totalling nearly £6k.

Immediately got onto the phone to the bank who claimed they had spoken to us last night before they had blocked our account.

We hadn’t spoken to them at all. Whoever got our card details wasn’t content with shopping at our expense but also phoned our bank to impersonate us and try and get the card unblocked.

The card is now blocked but apparently we can’t do anything else until we can go into a branch in person - they are all closed until 10am on Wednesday.

I feel utterly sick to my stomach. I feel violated. I feel completely uneasy. I want to cry. I want to stamp my feet and scream. I want to know who did it.

We do shop online a lot, esp at the minute, but we are also super careful. We have no idea how someone got our details.

I hate this. I hate this. I hate this.

Rant over.

What exactly are they asking you to go in to the back for? Seems really strange given this is a credit card and not a debit cars so not actually managed by the bank. If this had happened on my credit card there would be no bank for me to go in to, so I can’t understand why they need you to go there.

The bank would have asked the caller security questions such as mother’s maiden name etc before going ahead with the conversation.

I would look at changing all passwords for everything you use as well as memorable words etc.

You can tell the issues from the number, e.g. if I go into my online banking to set up a payment to a credit card account it picks up the issuer from the 16 digit number

The first six or eight digits of the card number are unique to the issuer (can’t remember which now).

When you phone your bank to make a bill payment they will ask for a reference number. On the list the bank I used to work for it used to say ‘starting XXXX XX’ so people would get the right number.

4659 used to be HSBC. A friend that works there tells me they’re moving to MasterCard soon, so it will then begin with a 5. Halifax is 5434. I can only half remember Santander and Lloyds.

Have you had any workers in your home who could have had 2 mins access to your wallet to photograph the card? Depending on the questions asked in the phone security check, it sounds as if they know your address and DOB.
Or it could be an inside job. Lloyds customers were targeted by fraudsters who had someone inside the bank.

Have called Argos but they have said that they can’t do anything because the transactions weren’t linked to my Argos account - just my credit card.

No-one’s been inside our home to have had access to our card. Main security question with CC bank is DH’s mother’s maiden name. Cannot work out how anyone could have guessed that - MIL lives in another country and has had 2 different married names since she last used her maiden name 40+ years ago

Could your other half be involved in something, off the books so to speak and got in too deep ?

Facebook? It's scary how much information you can glean about what could turn out to be security questions.

I wouldn’t be too bothered by this tbh - happens all the time surely!?You’ll get the money back, get a new card etc and that will be the end of it

Have you used it in a shop or garage recently, especially contactless? Fraudsters will normally use it online or below contactless limit to avoid needing a pin. There may be other transactions yet to appear. Are the bank refunding your card? Did they record the call?

That's horrible I am sorry it happened to you.
Will there be a delivery address they can check who is living there or at least has access

I've had this happen twice with a credit card. Each time the credit card company was fine about it and just credited the money. They seem to regard it as normal to lose a percentage this way.

I did have to wait for a new card each time so it was inconvenient and the first time it was worrying.

In one case someone had used the card to order something and then collected it from the shop to get around the problem of a delivery address. That card had never been used other than online so I wondered how they got the details too.

I had my card details stolen last year. In total thieves spent £19,000 on Air BnB, high end electronics and a vast amount of pizza (£400 order twice a day, who the f* were they feeding?)

I got it all back. Bank seemed remarkably unphased by the whole thing. Some choice words were exchanged when they suggested that I was hiding spending from my partner though (joint account, now firmly closed!)

They probably got the bank from the validation page. When I order anything online it directs me to a page which has my bank name at the top. From there you could work out which bank to call to try to get the card unblocked.

Doubt they will have bought anything out of Argos. Who wants five grand worth of Argos shit? They'll have got cash and pushed it through the retailer's platform as some kind of weird fraudy psuedo-refund transaction to wash it. Obviously nothing to do with you so don't worry and I'm sure you'll get your money back. Don't engage with the merchants, just communicate with your bank. They see this all the time, sadly.

I had this happen to my card a couple of years ago. I’ve got it set to text me every time the card is used. One morning I woke up to find I’d spent £2.5k in Argos. Called Amex and the transaction was cancelled, new card issued.

I would consider moving to a bank that uses voice id.

It is much more secure and may have prevented the second transaction following the scammers call.

You should get your money back in full though.

This happened to me last year - they called my card provider and increased the credit limit. They also got a new sim issued/ swapped to them for my phone number so they received the authorisation codes.

I felt absolutely violated. The card company reimbursed the money but never told me how they breached the security and I am was locked out of that account because the fraudsters changed my memorable word. I ended up closing that account because I cannot trust that company anymore - a big high street name.

It was also surprisingly easy for the fraudsters to switch my phone number. Always be alert if you lose service on your mobile phone. My (ex) mobile company was not interested and I had to make a subject data access request to get a transcript of the webchat (I know, a webchat from my online account where all the information they wanted for security purposes was held anyway) to see how the fraudsters did it. To get my number and sim back I had to go into a store with my ID.

Update every password. I changed my email address too. I also set up an Experian alert in case someone tried to get credit in my name.

It is horrible OP

Could you call up Argos and say you don't have the order number but you have the credit card number and see if they can give you any details about the transactions? If they ask you for postcode etc just say you have multiple addresses/recently changed your name/it was being sent to a friend or whatever - just basically say whatever you need to say to get the info.

And if that doesn't work you could potentially try and get some info via a Subject Access Request by asking for any info associated with that credit card number.

Be very wary if you get a call from someone claiming to be from the bank op and asking to go through the security questions. The fraudsters did that to me and we’re really convincing, it was only because they had a specific accent that stopped me revealing my details. I told the police but they just weren’t interested.

What bank are you with?

Please don’t try and call Argos and breach their security guidance. They won’t be able to tell you anything and it will just upset you.

Argos sell iPads and xboxes and all sorts that isn’t ‘just shit’ by the way @BaddestDaughter, they buy that stuff and then sell it on to wash it.

Whose card was it @BalaamsAss? You say ‘we’ a lot in the OP, but a card is linked to you or your husband - even joint cards you should both have separate personal details. Someone has cloned your card but must know your personal details so be able to clear security, I would submit a subject access request to find out the details of the call when the fraudsters unlocked the card. Maybe they spoofed your mobile number as well.

Regardless of how it was done I would change all passwords as soon as possible to be on the safe side. Try not to worry too much about the transactions, the bank will do all necessary investigations. They see account takeover fraud all the time.

£600 came out of my bank once for Clark’s shoes, rang bank and they said they would look into it, but I also rang Clark’s and told them it was an unauthorised payment and I asked what address the ‘thief’ was using go send goods, they said they couldn’t tell me as it would break the data protection act, unbelievable!..
Got my money back from Clark’s in a couple of days, but how were they to know that I wasn’t sat with a load of Clark’s new shoes and boots!?

There is absolutely nothing to be gained finding out the address of the thieves and no company will give it to you whether the bank or the company they bought from. You risk getting mixed up in the whole fraud if you 'pretend' to Argos to be them for goodness sake!

Just report to the bank as an unauthorised transaction and you will get the money back. The bank will do what they need to do re police or pressing charges to the perpetrators as it's the bank's money they have stolen (given the bank are required to repay it to you).

@SebastianTheCrab

Could you call up Argos and say you don't have the order number but you have the credit card number and see if they can give you any details about the transactions? If they ask you for postcode etc just say you have multiple addresses/recently changed your name/it was being sent to a friend or whatever - just basically say whatever you need to say to get the info.

And if that doesn't work you could potentially try and get some info via a Subject Access Request by asking for any info associated with that credit card number.

Dear god. PLEASE don't do this. You may then become linked to the purchase which could then cause all sorts of problems.

I'm not sure what you expect OP to then do with the info anyway? Go round and remonstrate on their doorstep?

Let the bank deal with it.

[quote BalaamsAss]@Monkeytapper when DH got through to the bank this morning, they said that they had spoken to him last night and it was showing on the account. They couldn’t give us any more details of the calls though. We think what’s happened is maybe the card was declined after one of the big transactions and they called our bank to try and unblock it. It must have worked because a second argos transaction then went through. Either that or they preempted the bank flagging a suspicious transaction and called before placing the order. (To be fair, we have done that ourselves when placing a large, unusual order to ensure it isn’t blocked)

I don’t know how the scammers would have known which bank the CC is with though. Surely the number alone doesn't tell you that?[/quote]
I think the fact they screwed up by speaking to someone who wasn't you is actually helpful here. Their fraud prevention protocol has entirely failed here and that's on them.
Twice DP and I have had this, both times with NatWest. Both times due to their protocol failings we were refunded and received compensation.
Did you just phone the credit card main line or did you ask to speak to the fraud team? We didn't have to physically go into the bank either time we just spoke to them. In times of Covid restrictions I would be demanding they sort it out over the phone and reiterating they were complicit in the fraud due to the call.
The first time was after we ordered a boxing day Chinese takeaway. 24 hours later someone ordered £2.5k off a Chinese located beauty products site. The bank tried to deny all knowledge of it being a blatant fraud since it was for a product we would never buy from a website in a country we've never visited and at 3am. That time they refunded within hours and we received £150 compensation.
The second time, £800 came out as lots of transactions from 1am to 6am. That time they tried to deny the cock up but I threatened a report to the Financial conduct agency via the ombudsman and suddenly we got the money back and £200 compensation
Don't be afraid to let rip and show you know your rights. Banks thrive on people being slightly nervous of them and will try and speak jargon. The fact is, they are supposed to protect your money and they've failed to in a huge way.
As for action fraud, useless, uninterested and will probably email in a couple of days saying they can't justify investigation. They're literally there as a proof you've reported the fraud they only step in when huge sums of money walks.