When did things start to become more child orientated?

[Soubriquet]

In Victorian times for example, children were seen and not heard and dosed up so they didn’t cry.

Now we have toddler groups, first birthday shoots, birthing shots etc etc

When did things swing from “just shove it in a drawer and give it something to shut it up” to “let’s all go to baby group and see your lovely friends”

I was born in the 1950’s. Nothing was child centred, we were basically pushed out to play after breakfast, and went to the woods/park/friends’ gardens/played football in the street completely unsupervised and only went home for meals. Parents regarded us as a nuisance and ignored us - we were expected to be silent and invisible as much as possible. Unless they were in a violent temper, in which case we were beaten with a horsewhip or dragged down staircases by one leg.
I think things began to change by the late 60’s, with more mass produced plastic toys and consumer goods aimed at children. And I certainly spent far more time playing, teaching and interacting with my own DC in the 90’s.

I think a lot of it is the investment that people make in their children nowadays. The clubs, activities and attention, to stimulate them and increase their life chances.

In the past (100yrs+) most people went for quantity not quality in their children (gross exaggeration I know). Contraception and social mobility caused a big shift in the purpose of having children. Many people don’t, or wait longer, or have less.

Social expectations are slowly catching up with reality. Kids are a massive investment in time and money so are treated as such. It’s a gradual change in the last 100 years.

My mum and two of her pals started the first baby and toddler group in our town, and this was about 1979. But I can still remember being under 5 and it being expected that I would bugger off with my little friends and play in the park. I think there was an element of the mums keeping an eye out as to who was in what garden, but I can remember being about 4 or 5 and going quite far from my house (and doing things like trying to get stray dogs to follow us by giving them crisps!)

I think the introduction of Social Media has a lot to do with this. People showing off their 'perfect' family lives and their 'perfect' parenting has put a lot of pressure on parents.

I was a 70s child definitely not the centre of the universe we fitted in with them.

My sister and I were early 80's. We had a very happy childhood. Very secure and loved. But we very much fitted in with my parents. Can't imagine kids these days putting up with being dragged round town while mum did all her errands. Though with direct debits and online stuff, it's not needed anymore.
If we went out for a meal, it was such a treat that we were on best behaviour. And we knew how to behave in public.

I don't have DC so probably not best placed to comment but I'm amazed how many children interrupt their parents phone calls
Talking/screaming/shouting. As a kid I knew not to unless something was on fire, and if I did I would get "the look" and slope off to entertain myself
Just something I've noticed because it can be really really difficult to hear people when there's a child screaming down the phone!

I do actually have a bit of a theory about all this. So, I said mid 90s is when it changed , and that's when those of us born in the 70s started to have our own children. A lot of people I know of that generation did suffer a bit from our parents very much putting themselves first, in the sense of having affairs, running off to communes, finding themselves etc. So, I think when we have parents we went really far the other way, and tried to always put our kids first.
That's not necessarily a bad thing- I had a very free childhood but I wouldn't say a safe or secure one- however I think it went too far. What happened after that was that businesses realised just how much jingle there was in kid's party supplies, and soft play centres and baby yoga, and Capitalism did the rest, aided by social media. Sites like Mumsnet ironically didn't help, as we all started to compare ourselves to other mums, and worry if we were weaning the right way or providing enough activities, or somehow accidentally screwing up our kids
Basically we have all gone slowly mad. Maybe our children- some of whom are now becoming parents themselves- will revert to selfishness and neglect. Quite possible actually, given how pampered we have made them!

Agree with your last sentence there, ifnotnow12, my 13 year old DS told me that he was his first priority when I asked him why he is so selfish yesterday. I hate how child centric everything is, although this is quite an unpopular view amongst a lot of the Mums I know. When my two were little, I took them out and about a lot, but always found playing at home really difficult, was tempted to be doing other things such as clearing up all the mess they made, I know how sad and negative that sounds. My parents looked after us, were in some ways quite overprotective (70s babies), but holidays for instance were chosen by them and we fitted in. We were expected to behave in restaurants and did and I know my Mum in particular wouldn't have tolerated all the child centred days out, although we did go to Alton Towers once. I really feel that it it does need to start going the other way again as I think as Mums our generation have really suffered from all the competitiveness, pressure, etc.

And to be fair not all of us bow to those pressures as I agree they are consumerist traps. I was born the 90's and my DC are all aged 5 and under. I love them dearly, co sleep when they are babies, attachment parenting and all that... but I don't take them to those pointless groups and I don't sit with them all day.

It seems like for the vast majority of human history we would not have sat around all day just playing with DCs and I believe it's detrimental - the amount of posts I've seen on here feeling guilty for not playing with their DC for 4 hours a day or for daring to let their DC watch tv during the day when the DC is poorly as if it will somehow destroy their development if left alone for half a day. I'm very into independent play and not adult led play, and I love letting my baby potter around under my feet while I'm getting on with my day or even (gasp) relaxing and doing something for myself.

I am very affectionate with my DC and routine driven. But I do not structure their play beyond the obvious things that have to be done with me. I see all round benefit to them, to me and to my relationship. I couldn't imagine feeling pressured into having a full on schedule of activities and things to attend for children below school age.

I had my children in the early seventies and there was a big grass-roots movement to set up playgroups. It was part of the developing women's movement, setting up of refuges for women and children, challenging employment policies etc.

I think scheduled type activities is partially yo do with families where all parents work outside the house becoming more common (again). Me and my siblings were young in the late 70s / 80s im many ways our lifes were more child centred, my mum didn't work for a 15 year period and then worked very part time. We went to playgroups / football / Brownies etc. We rarely ate out, it was too expensive. My parents lives were heavily shaped by us, our activities and energies. I think 8n many way my children have to fit in more with our lives, they have to go to out of school childcare, we have less free time as a family, we eat out and there are 9ften child menus but its definitely not them leading the eating out (may be the actual choice of place), same with holidays- they are happy with bucket and spade places, but we tend to take them up and down mountains.

I imagine it's got something to do with families generally being smaller and parents no longer having to work 24/7 just to keep food on the table. Also frankly maternity leave is boring and until lockdown started, classes were my way of breaking up the day!

I agree that being too focused can result in selfishness and entitlement if we are not careful. There's a balance I think. Yes absolutely get down on the floor and play with them and take them to some child focused activities, but at the same time make sure they experience the mundane parts of life and teach them that parents are people in their own right. So it's ok to leave them to play independently or in childcare. It won't do them any harm.

@PearlescentIridescent

It is purely subjective and individuals do not necessarily conform to the prevailing ideas or our modern thoughts of society's ideas at the time.

For example I'm studying a history degree at the moment and my unit is focusing on the early modern period. There is a lrimary source from the 1700s of a woman writing a series of letters to her merchant husband and she clearly dotes on their little son, fretting about his health, recouting anecdotes to her husband and reminding him (husband) to buy their boy the little hat he's been going on about for ages.

It really struck me how this mother has the exact same inclination toward her child as any modern mother living today would. It was absolutely heartbreaking to read the letter she sent to her husband to inform him their son had died. I cried for hours and had to take a break.

We view historical periods sometimes by their stereotypes or prominent practices. But in reality many families have had close, loving and nurturing relationships. So it's hard to give definitive answers to questions like these.

Love this response- fascinating!

When I had my daughter my Mum's gift to me was a book called the 'Motherhood book' from about 1890. It was more 'child centred/attachment parenting' than I expected from my 'shove it in a drawer' idea of Victorian parenting. My mum gave it to me to let me know that basically all kinds of advice has been given over the years and everything changes (some of the stuff in this book was quite 'out there') so to trust my own instincts.

@lifestooshort123

More to the point, when did children become the centre of attention? Holidays, meals out, leisure activities all aimed at keeping them entertained. What happened to going down the pub and leaving little Johnny in the back seat of the Cortina with a bag of crisps and a lemonade?

I spent many a Sunday afternoon in the 80s in the car with a packet of crisps and a vimto. I read lots of books

Similar to a poster above I read History at university ( though 25 years ago). Unlile modern assumptions on historical parents, they loved their children as we do. There was a diarist father who wrote incredibly movingly on his daughter dying and then the subsequent visits to her grave.

The modern child centric view probably had many facets ( smaller families, less house work, more time, social mobility, consumer culture) but loving them more isn't it.

when preganancy and babies became a choice rather than a relentless burden to bear. That doesnt mean they werent loved, but in families where there are 10 or so children, it was a different sort of "putting them first"

I absolutely agree that it’s not a case of in the past children were always seen and not heard and now it’s all toddlers rampaging in art galleries. There have always been parents who dote on children, and there are almost certainly parents around now who if it was acceptable to dose their children with gin to make them sleep would do.

I suspect a big part is commercialisation and more disposable income. Things like church toddler groups, children’s sports teams and Cubs and brownies have existed for years, but they’re not usually profit making. Soft play, baby sensory, baby friendly cafes and sessions in local museums, the NT encouraging families, the almost infinite variety of out of school activities, virtually all MC children taking private swimming lessons make money.

@OccultGnuAsWell

When the capitalists realised the sheer amount of merchandise that could be sold to the child rearing population.

This!

I think 60s kids’ lives had to fit in with their parents. Transition took place through 70s and 80s. By 90s life was v child focused.

Be interesting to see when and how it swings back.

This may be a controversial view, but I see nowadays how many choices children seem to have to make on a daily basis - children being consulted about what to eat, where the family are to go on holiday, what they want to do that day - and I think how stressful that must be for them.

When I was a child, it was normal for parents to make all those decisions - children just went along with what their parents did (and got told off if they complained about it). It was therefore a treat if you were given a choice - e.g. on your birthday - about what you wanted to eat or where you wanted to go on a day trip etc. & the freedom to make these sorts of choice was something gained as you grew older and into your teens, and so was valued.

As an adult I find the majority of those choices just a tedious chore - meal-planning, sorting out a holiday etc. I'd love to have a week back in a 70s/80s childhood where you were a back-seat passenger in life and everything just happened. I feel sorry for children of today who have to make all these choices in infancy - without the experience and knowledge accrued during the journey to adulthood.

DH (older, free-range 70s childhood) asked me today if our 7& 10 yo were able to walk about a mile to our house from the edge of our neighbourhood...
I actually think they are capable. They know the way. They are sensible. There are about 2 very quiet roads to cross, but you just don't do that these days. My 10yo is small and young looking, the 7 yo looks young too. My fear is not what they can do, it's society being against it.

Being a child of the 80s, there was a lot of public safety infirmation. As it happens, I did not have freedom living out of catchment on an main road with no children nearby. But my generation grew up with safety nessages. Some high profile abductions and murders in the 90s/ 00s... Jamie Bulger, Sophie Hook, Madeline McCann and I think its combined to make an incredibly risk averse culture of parenting. Add in more working mothers and the need for formal childcare and there simply aren't the peers avaliable to let children play with informally and have safety in numbers. I find myself paying £20 a day in the summer so my 7 yo can play sport, because he can't naturally do it in the park around the corner. We have a classmate next door, but they rarely play together because of the demands of his football team at the weekends and childcare in the week.

The focus on safeguarding is a good thing, but the fear of being neglectful again pushes parents into being more risk averse. Cases like the dad being prosecuted for leaving a child in the car while he went into the pharmacy have done a lot of damage to parental confidence.

It all pushes us to make formal arrangements for our children rather than giving them space to fit in and do their own thing.

I often think about this and talk about this with people.
I'm in a very child centered profession so I think that's why.

In my childhood we definitely fitted in with our parents wants/needs. I spent alot of my childhood following my mum round shops, her friends homes or the pub. I can never remember a time when she got down and played with us and we went out with other kids in the community from a young age for most of the day. She did take us to some activities or playgroup but it was more for her to sit and drink tea while we went off and played. I feel like I was very much loved but definitely not the centre of the family.

With my own dc it's become very much the other way and we pretty much live round and for what they want/need and I actually dislike it. I have lost myself and it affects my mh somewhat. My dc expect us to play with them most of the day.
Me and dh are making a conscious effort to change this and to become a little bit selfish and similar to our childhood. This is for both the dc benefit and ours.

I think kids can be very spoilt and selfish these days.

I believe it all changed with TV and other media when childrens toys/items became much more readily available and it became almost keeping up with the Jones in doing the most activities and owning the best toys. Probably early 90s.

I agree with the shift happening around the 1990s. I was born in the 70s and my childhood was definitely not child centred. I had my children between 2005 and 2014 and life is certainly more child centred now. I read something like this in one of Nigella Lawson's books - "when I was a child adults are in charge, now I'm an adult children are in charge so it's NEVER been my turn!". It's quite funny but has a ring of truth!

I certainly wasn't neglected as a child. Was well cared for, privately schooled etc. But the dad was the centre of the house and everything revolved around him. It was one of the reasons I didn't ever want to get married, lol. We were expected to do as we were told, not answer back, go to bed at 7pm so the adults could enjoy some peace etc. We fitted in with their lives and what they wanted to do. We did some activities but they were usually ones chosen/approved by parents (tennis/ piano/ guides). I wasn't bothered, I was quite lazy and a homebody, happiest at home with a book or tv (even that was strictly limited). We spent a lot of time not being entertained or actively engaged with by our parents. I don't think that was a bad thing to be honest. I'm very happy in my own company and rarely feel bored.

Not so good was a lack of emotional engagement. My sister and I both worried/got anxious a lot but the attitude was "pull yourself together and count your blessings". As a result I bottled things up and never confided in my parents. They didn't seem interested in what we were passionate about - all I can remember them being interested in was school work/academic results. I now think (since my own son was diagnosed) that I had/have ADD and feel quite aggrieved about all the times my parents berated me for being lazy/ daydreaming/hapless. To be fair people didn't really know about the range of neurodiversity in those days but I can't imagine not noticing that my child was actually "different" or struggling.

However, I think things have gone too far and I'm appalled by the number of children I see ruling the roost or not expected to be bored or hungry for even a few minutes. I try to strike a balance with mine. It's hard though and I certainly don't always get it right. I do insist on them entertaining themselves some of the time, but I also spend a lot more time engaged with them than my parents did with us and encourage them to tell me any worries or problems that they have. I invested a lot of time, willpower and money in unravelling my son's learning and social difficulties (HF ASD and ADHD). They aren't anything like as indulged as many children we know. We are quite well off but days out to stuff like theme parks or meals out are a treat rather than a typical weekend. I think if we did that all the time that stuff would never seem special. They also rarely get new toys or gadgets except for Christmas or birthdays. Some kids we know get bought stuff every weekend. Our kids do a couple of weekly activities each - chosen by them - except swimming lessons which were not negotiable. Some of their friends do a different activity every night of the week!

Why have things changed though? I think being taught in the 80s that women can "have it all" was a huge factor. Women who chose to give up a career for their children then felt they had to make a career out of motherhood in order to justify it. Career mums felt judged and lavished quality time and activities on their children too.

Also better contraception and it being more socially acceptable to choose NOT to have children meant people made very conscious choices about if/ when to have children and how to raise them in the best way.

Just a few thoughts ...

Interesting post @BogRollBOGOF. I was thinking about the perception of risk too. I read the Free Range Parenting book a few years ago (the one which caused a stir because the author let her child ride on the NY subway alone) and the hypothesis was that it was 24 hours rolling news channels on TV in the early 90s that set in motion the idea that children were in grave danger if left unsupervised for 5 minutes. Certainly lots of the freedoms that people are fondly reminiscing about here - I too was left in the car with my brothers outside pubs, supermarkets and shopping centres, and “played out” for hours on end in the 80s - don’t happen now, not necessarily because parents WANT to be glued to their children 24/7, but because it’s perceived to be no longer safe. I’d personally love to leave my children outside the pub!