Qualified accountants - Advice please?

[Advice1109098]

I've been offered a graduate scheme at a strong mid-tier firm (training as a tax accountant).

In my contract it states that I'll be studying towards the ACA/CTA joint qualification. All the information I can find regarding the accounting exams is heavily focused on the CTA or ACA alone (not the joint qualification) and seems to suggest that the CTA exam is extremely hard and has a very low pass rate which has made me feel quite nervous.

Does anyone have experience with the joint qualification, or have knowledge of how hard it is? Its a 3 year training contract so I'm assuming I'd be studying both alongside each other... does this mean it would be harder than the standalone qualification? I'm unsure.

If anyone has any info on this it would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

It would be harder only if they don’t give you enough time to study both.

Its an excellent opportunity and theres little in it for them if you fail. The exams arent easy but that makes the qualification worth working for and securing.

Congratulations on the offer. Im at the end of my career but its served me very well.

I did my ACA exams within 18-24 months I think, then the CTA exams after so after 3 years I was exam qualified and experince qualified for both. This was with a mid tier firm as two separate qualifications. I wasn't aware of a joint qualification... But this was over 12 years ago.

My degree gave me some exemptions in the ACA exams and then the ACA gave some exemptions in the CTA exams. We were given time off to go to college and study leave, on top of annual leave, for exams. It was manageable by then again I was still used to taking exams after being at university and lived at home with my parents so had no other real responsibilities!

If you plough through the exams it's possible to get ACA done in just over 2 years, then I assume you'd move onto CTA in the 3rd year? When I qualified ACA a lot of people did CTA in the following year. Great opportunity, just get your head down and get the exams done.

Check what study leave is on offer. Ideally you want study leave for both taught and revision courses, that will make it far easier than trying to cram it into evenings and weekends.

Thanks for the replies!

@trilbydoll see i'm unsure whether it is both alongside each other from the start, or starting with ACA then moving onto CTA...

Also I'm slightly more concerned as I'm a single parent so of course I don't get weekends off (very used to studying in the evenings, however).

I will try to get some family support as I will be living closer to them, I just don't want to sign up to something if it is way beyond my means iykwim. There isn't much info on the study hours etc. Its a strong firm though so I do assume they have fairly good study support (I hope).

Congratulations what's the firm (nosy!) Just tell me first letter.

No experience of joint qualification. If you can do ACA you can do your tax qualification. Just get started and see how you get on. Once you are some way through your exams you are more attractive to other employers anyway as part qualified and so still a cheap resource without the cost and time of training you. So you aren't stuck there if you absolutely hate it. 3 years is a short time so most people do their training contract with one firm.

I highly recommend it as a career. I spent 5 years in tax before moving to advisory many years ago. It's hard work but reasonably family friendly and well paid. 6 figure salary is an option. I say put in the work now and get set up for life!

@ZenNudist

Thank you! thats good to hear. Unfortunately it would be very outing, its very close to the Big 4 though.

It's definitely something I'm willing to give my all, it's just the horror stories I've managed to read online with many failing the CTA exams. To top it off, these are most likely graduates without a child so that worries me. Saying that though, I would hate to have to give up the offer, especially with the current job market!

There should be info on the joint ACA/CTA pathway on the CIOT website. It's not the same as doing ACA then doing CTA.

By mid tier do you mean top 10? What's the study support like? What happens if you fail an exam - resit at your own cost or is your contract terminated? Do you have to apply for a job at the end of training or is it continuous employment? Did you apply for a tax role or did you apply for general graduate intake and they selected you for tax?

As a minimum, I'd expect you to have paid leave to attend taught and revision courses as well as for the exam and maybe the day before. Some of the bigger firms provide additional leave in the week or so leading up to your exam. I don't know anywhere that would give you paid leave for resits (or retaking courses). The training providers offer pass assurance schemes so that if you meet certain criteria they will give you a free taught or revision course if you fail an exam. Some employers dismiss trainees for one fail, some for a repeated fail of the same exam, some for repeated fails across the qual, some only if your work performance does not progress. Check.

The joint pathway is a good opportunity.

Have you read the info on the joint pathway? I'm assuming not if you think it just means you have to do both quals simultaneously. It reduces duplication in the syllabus across the quals, means you take two fewer exams, and have more flexibility in your studies.

The combined info on what the specific aca vs cta exams are like plus how the pathway works should be more than adequate to gauge how you feel about it and whether it's right for you. There's nothing special about doing both qualifications (other than the doors they open), and arguably the joint pathway makes it much easier to be joint qualified than it otherwise would be.

If you're not someone who is good at seeking out information on your own and evaluating it then you might struggle if I'm totally honest. You need to be confident doing your own research to work in tax, so it's good to be doing that with your studies and comfortable locating the info you need from your professional bodies. They're really important skills. Similarly, juggling studying and exam pressures with your workplace responsibilities is also a skill you need for your career (it's not just pressure for the sake of it).

That's not trying to be nasty or put you down, but to help you weigh up whether it's right for you - I don't know the answers! The pattern we see with people who drop out of their qualifications is that the ones who expected us to tell them everything or do everything for them, right from how to register as a student, and give everything to them on a plate rather than looking it up themselves were the ones who dropped out.

Better to assess now whether it is the right fit for you than a year or two down the line.

How do you feel about registering as a student yourself without direction other than what you obtain yourself? Checking exam dates and deadlines to get yourself booked on for the right exams at the right time (it's not automatic)? Looking up the syllabus and searching for past papers? Learning to use legislation and research cases? Finding out what practical experience requirements you have to meet and evidencing them?

If that feels comfortable, then you should do ok. It is hard work, but not impossible if you put the effort in and have the aptitude.

If it is right for you, it's a great opportunity.

www.tax.org.uk/students-and-qualifications/chartered-tax-adviser-and-icaew-chartered-accountant-joint-programme

Hey!

I did the ATT > CTA route as I’m pure tax and my colleague is doing the ACA / CTA at the moment.

It is very structured how you do it, CTA isn’t just an add on at the end. You have to do certain CTA exams prior to sitting your ACA finals. (3 advanced level exams)

www.tax.org.uk/students-and-qualifications/chartered-tax-adviser-and-icaew-chartered-accountant-joint-programme

Have a look here it should answer your questions. It is only 1 extra written exam to get both qualifications.

If you want a chat about any of it, as someone who has recently sat CTA exams, you’re welcome to PM me! (My DP is ACA too so we are both able to help!)

@Logistria thank you for your reply, lots of useful information.

Tbh there's more I need to look into, as much as I wanted the job, I was under no impression I would get it so I will need to do some more research. However, I do know that they offer study leave, and it is a top 10, yes. I applied for the tax role as its more office based so more suitable for my circumstances (and an area Ii'm interested in).

I would say I'm a very independent worker and can definitely get on with things myslef so it's not so much that I'm worried about. Its more the content, and whether I'll be able to keep up with being in work full-time, a full-time parent and studying for the dual qualification, considering others without this responsibiity seem to struggle.

I've got a good academic background, but again from what I have read online, it seems that even those from top universities who are very capable have failed!

In terms of pass rates - some people book exams they don't attend or don't prepare for. Some people don't engage with the tuition about how to answer professional exams rather than academic exams. Some aren't cut out for it. Some try to do too many at once or too fast. All of these things affect pass rates.

People who fail go online to commiserate and make themselves feel better, so some of what you've read may need to be taken with a pinch of salt. All the people who passed easily will be out living not posting online dissecting it!

The only pass rate that matters is your own.

If it's #5 or another top 10 firm, they will want their pound of flesh from you. You are slightly signing your life away at mid tier and big 4. Expect lots of unpaid overtime. But to have them finance expensive training and quads it can be worth it. Make sure you're clear how long you'd have to work for them post-qual before you could leave without having to pay them back for the cost of your courses and exams.

I also wouldn't make assumptions about study support, I'd confirm details before signing a training contract.

I would say, if you're used to managing being a parent alongside academic studies you may be better equipped to cope with managing professional exams alongside working and the rest of your life than the other grads. You may have an advantage there rather than be disadvantaged.

All our tax grads do the joint pathway now, so that's my perspective when posting.

@Logistria I'll definitely have to look into that, thank you. Tbh I had assumed they all offer study leave. It mentions it on their website but I'll need to check that out and see exactly where it is offered.

I'm waiting to hear back from some of the smaller firms (top 30) so that is still an option, but I do think it would be better to have a big name on my CV... it's just whether it's do-able.

That's good to hear though. I've been doing my degree in a much more confined time-frame as compared to most of the students on my course and have managed to do well (don't mean to sound big-headed), but I do hear its one hell of a step up from degree level

@FlorrieMango thank you, I really appreciate that! Once I've looked into it a bit more, I will definitely PM you if anything comes to mind

Have they sent you a training agreement to sign as that usually tells you more about the study leave agreed etc

Dd started a school leaver programme in audit at Grant Thornton and that's what she was given when they offered the job.

@imnottoofussed I was told I was getting a contract to sign but when I logged into the site it was a standard offer letter which I accepted thinking it would take me to the agreement but it didn't .

I'm hoping it wasn't that I was meant to sign. I'll have to contact them to double check!

You sound like a promising candidate to me. Just the fact that you appreciate a tax role is more office based than an audit role shows you've given it more consideration than others.

I have known people who were already parents when they started their studies and with various challenges. It is still achievable.

My only other comments would be that some of the people who fail do so because they sailed through their academic years and expected the professional exams to be the same. They're not. The final levels are also at master's level, albeit professional style not academic. So it is a step up.

Part of what people find difficult is that professional exams are quite different from academic exams and require you to answer differently, approach things differently, and think differently. You need to learn that style as well as the content.

Learning the right exam technique and approach will be really valuable. The tuition providers do cover this (unfortunately some students don't pay attention because they think they know it all from uni).

You don't seem like you're making assumptions that this will come easily and you are putting thought into how it would be. That's not a bad thing. An open mind and an awareness that you can't take success for granted will help.

The training period also goes much faster than you think it will when you're facing the prospect of it at the beginning. The content of each paper is also daunting at the beginning, but again once you get stuck in you might be surprised how much you can assimilate. You don't need to know every detail of each syllabus, just enough to answer sensibly and show enough understanding of the principles. Often with tax it's about identifying what you don't know and need to look up that's important. Nobody can know it all.

The tuition providers do usually provide an estimate of how many hours you would need to put in for each paper. Different people plan it differently, but you'll usually figure out a pattern that works for you during the first few exams.

Little and often can work well, as long as you give yourself time off so you don't burn out.

Exam practice is key - even if that's open book exam practice. It's almost always more effective than trying to read and memorise the content for most of your hours and then only doing a little exam practice at the very end of your study period. Exam practice from the early days helps you memorise, understand and apply the content. It also helps you develop the time management you need to tackle the exams.

Wasting weeks and weeks doing nothing more than reading and reciting is one of the big mistakes I see people make.

So if you go ahead that's probably my top tip. Exam practice! Don't wait til you've mastered the content to do questions, start practising questions in order to master the content.

I wish you all the best whatever you decide. It can be a rewarding career with many different possibilities.

@Advice1109098 it might come through in the post so hopefully that should tell you more good luck and congratulations on getting the offer

@Advice1109098 Yes I think it may have been a confirmation letter and then the contract is sent (hopefully). Thank you

I work in this area and know loads of people doing this qualification. General consensus is that the ACA part is fine if you study hard and make the time for it.

CTA is much harder and more nuanced I would say? In indirect anyway, there questions are more open to interpretation.

Of my BIg 4 year group of 12, about 8 of us qualified (others got fired and qualified elsewhere).

I won’t lie, the CTA was the hardest exam I have ever sat, but it’s doable!

I am CTA qualified and work for a big 4. I did my exams while working at a small firm though, with virtually zero support. It was tough. I look back now and wondered how I managed it. The exams really are as hard as people say - harder than any exam I sat doing my law degree. It's doable, but you do need to put in the work and not just reading, but tonnes of question practice. I don't want to put you off as I love working in tax and it's opened up a lot of doors for me but I think it's important to know what you're getting in to - long hours at work then studying in the evenings. Definitely check the support package they are offering.