What to do about DD tantrums

[Grits]

Dd is 5 and has always been highly strung. As a baby she would scream if I put her down, if I left the room, if she was with anyone except me etc. She has got slightly better as she's grown, she likes school and is happy to be left with DM but she still frequently has meltdowns and we're struggling to know what to do.

Tonight she has had a big tantrum because DH was taking her to bed and she wanted me to instead. We now have DS who is 6 months old, and as I am bf him I take him to bed and feed him to sleep. If DH takes DD at the same time then hopefully they're both asleep within 30 mins and then we can have a few hours to ourselves (DS frequently wakes up but that's another story!) I told DD that I would take her tomorrow night and gave her a kiss/cuddle but she wasn't happy with this and started to scream and cry.

DD has a tendancy to scream and wail at the top of her lungs when she gets like this and we feel like we've tried everything to help - she will not give in. She was the same when she was a baby, she once screamed for 2.5 hours straight in the car on the way back from a day out.

We've tried the cuddling/reassuring approach, bribery, the calm 'this is what is going to happen xyz', ignoring her, reward charts, shouting () but she just screams and screams and doesn't listen. I thought she would have grown out of it by now but she just seems to get louder and more defiant! It is starting to really affect DS as she is screaming so loudly and so much that he is getting scared and anxious, which breaks my heart. I've explained to her that it is scary for him to hear it and she does understand but she says she can't help it.

I feel like I am caught between a rock and a hard place; I try and navigate around what might set her off but its a fine line between keeping her happy and just giving in! Has anyone else had a child like this and what strategies did you use? In the end tonight I've fed DS and passed him to DH and then had to take DD to bed! I told her no story and cuddles but I think she still feels like she's got her own way. We've always had to sit with her whilst she goes to sleep (again I feel like we've tried everything to stop this) and this can sometimes take an hour! Feeling very fed up.

Aww. She was your “baby” until just over 6 months ago. She will be utterly exhausted as it’s the end of term. I know you need your time alone as well but for the moment help her. (I have a very similar situation - both slightly older so just coming out the other side!).

I know @DownWhichOfLate we're still really close, she loves DS as well but I do try to really make her feel like she isn't being pushed out. Some nights I do take her to bed after I've got DS off to sleep but this then means I'm not downstairs till 8:30-9 and by then it's time for me to sleep! I'm so exhausted as DS wakes up a lot overnight.

DD has always been like this, not just since DS arrived. I'm just out of ideas for strategies on how to handle her when she goes into meltdown. If she has any perceived lack of control then that's when the problems start!

I know it’s really tough but my older child desperately needed me when the younger one was a baby. So I did both bedtimes for a year or so. Now the older one will go to bed with his dad. But still has wobbles. Tougher parents would be horrified, I’m sure!

I think you should be viewing this as her struggling with her emotions and needing help from her parents to co-regulate these, rather than bad behaviour to get her own way.

It is really hard for older dc to suddenly get what feels like the worse deal because they are now the "big one".

I don't have any advice I'm afraid but following in the hope of gathering some wisdom. Our oldest has epic tantrums, has had from the start, but it's become more of a logistical challenge now we have a baby in the mix too.

I definitely take the unable to regulate emotions view, but not sure what techniques to use other than to remain calm and recognise the emotion rather than refer to it as being naughty. He can continue with a tantrum for an hour, easily, and me being calm somehow seems to wind him up more .

It does sound like struggle to regulate emotions, possibly beyond what is typical development for her age.

Have you looked into typical "girl" profiles of anything like ASD or ADHD? They can differ from the stereotypes which often refer to a profile more commonly seen in boys. Of course it might not be anything like that, especially if it is only the emotion regulation which is delayed, but on the other hand when DS1 was still having massive, exhausting, unmanagable tantrums at 5 I sort of wish someone had said it's not you - this really isn't normal development for this age.

And if you know she has always been like this and there is no change relating to the new baby, I would not be fobbed off by people saying she is reacting to the new baby, yes, challenging behaviour is normal but if this predates that, then it's probably not related.

Maybe you need a schedule that shows clearly which days you will put her to bed and which days it will be dad. Get her to help you make the schedule. ie Have four mummy cards and three daddy cards and she puts them on the schedule next to the days.

Look into the book The Explosive Child.

Also The Whole-Brain Child (or No Drama Discipline which is related but more practical)

The Thinking Parent's guide to Executive Functioning.

There's quite a good book, might have some new ideas

Thanks for the book recommendations @BertieBotts and @yellowbluetulip I will check those out.

I like that idea about the cards, thank you @cansu.

Bertie I have wondered whether there is something else going on but I feel pretty clueless. She has always been this way, she is very affectionate and sociable, has tonnes of friends at school (nearly all boys though ) but is just incredibly emotional. She doesn't listen to instructions very well and is very clumsy. I wonder sometimes if it is linked to her sleep as she has never slept through the night, but then I also wonder if the sleep thing is linked to something else!

Sorry you are having a tough time too @Iloveyoucaterpillar it is much harder once you have a baby to think of too. I try to shield DS from the screaming but if DH isn't there too then there isn't much I can do! I worry what impact the screaming and crying will have on him.

@Stompythedinosaur thank you, that is a good way to look at it. I worry if I am too forgiving then she will be spoilt. I remember as a kid having a kind of fear of my parents that I wouldn't push them to being angry because I knew I would get in trouble, but she doesn't have this at all. I don't want her to be scared of me, of course, but she just has no fear of consequences! She gets herself so worked up that there is no reasoning with her.

@Grits, I recognise a lot of what you are saying, especially fear of consequences and lack thereof, clumsiness, emotional behaviour highly strung, sleep problems. Mine are also very destructive and oppositional. I have a 7 yo and 2x 4yo who are turning out similar. It's very challenging and stressful and like you I am mourning the loss of any time to ourselves as adults! I'm interested in others opinions, as whenever it is mentioned at school -and it is, frequently!- the teachers will often play it down, but I do suspect something like ADHD. Their DF and paternal grandmother have similar traits. Solidarity to you, sorry no advice really, other than maybe a bit of love bombing your DD might help the jealousy aspect if it's part of the problem.

Check this out: Asperger's in bright young girls by Tania A Marshall.

If your DD ticks alot of those boxes ask your GP for a referral to assess. Where we are, that assessment takes about 2 years. Plenty of time for your DD to grow out if it if it's not ASD.

Our DD was 6/7 years old when someone told us about the article. It was a lightbulb moment for us. A few years on and we have a boy and a girl with an ASD diagnosis. My son behaves as you describe your DD.
With both kids, we are currently doing bedtime from 7pm - midnight. It's fucking exhausting.

My youngest ds is like this (so no jealousy issues). He’s 7 now and improving, but I think he’s just naturally headstrong and favours me. I’ve just validated his feelings, hugged him and explained why I can’t do everything. He’s always understood logically, but is only now becoming able to understand/ manage emotionally.

Sorry op don't have any advice but I am following for tips as my dd 6 is the same

No sleep, clumsy and emotional dysregulation could be adhd (dyspraxia?), but equally it could just be a delay in that specific area, not related to anything else.

With ADHD you generally see forgetfulness, disorganisation, and/or time blindness/inability to manage time. Addictive or risky behaviour is also common on the impulsive side. I'm not a doctor though! And people don't need every single symptom on the list.

Oh hang on this is the thread about the 5yo sorry I got mixed up with a different thread about a 13yo. It's harder to see the other traits at 5 because they're still in the developing state for all kids, so hard to say whether normal or behind.

At 5 you typically see sensory issues (texture /clothing /food, sounds, screen time making them loopy yet being the only thing that calms them down) and struggle with transitions, instructions, in both adhd and asd.

You might find The Zones of Regulation a useful tool. www.thinkingbooks.co.uk/dept/the-zones-of-regulation_d0168.htm