Persuade me eating healthily is worth it

[Gwenhwyfar]

Already posted in Health, but I thought I'd try and get additional answers.

I know I should eat healthily and have my 5 a day (currently struggling to get just 1 despite being 90% vegetarian), but even though I know it, I struggle to really understand it if you see what I mean. I know scientists say you should eat fruit and veg and that ideally it should be way more than 5 and I presume that's based on studies of people who've developed certain illnesses, but it's not something I can SEE or FEEL like I can with other things. When I've made an effort myself, I haven't seen any improvement.
I can see that overeating makes you overweight. That's clear.
I can feel that too much sugar rots your teeth. I can feel that happening, but I just can't see the damage I'm doing by eating cheese sandwiches and the like.

I hear people saying things like 'I haven't been eating healthily, I'm craving fruit/veg now' and I'm quite confused by that or 'you may not be overweight, but you'll be really unhealthy inside'. I don't really know what they mean by that.

Can anyone help make it more 'real' for me rather than just something people say.

Thanks in advance.

OP I didn't say 'a majority' or even 'most'. What I said was 'many', and that is true.

If I were of a cynical or suspicious disposition, I would think that you were getting some sort of strange satisfaction from arguing with - and off-the-point nitpicking with - dozens of people who have been generous enough to share their experiences and/or take time to give you the advice and information that you asked for in your original post.
But of course I don't know you - and of course I have a lovely disposition - and so I can't possibly say that. I would suggest however that you need help.

@TheBoots

Problem is OP, that you say you don't believe that it will benefit you...do you think the doctors and scientists, who have done observational studies in hundreds of thousands of people are wrong? That the science is wrong and that we can all just live off cheese sandwiches?

The thing is that doctors don't say the same thing to me. When I ask for blood tests in case I'm deficient in something they're always really reluctant and tell me young-ish people don't have malnutrition. I said at the beginning, that I know that studies have shown we're supposed to eat fruit and veg and I accept that, it's just not something I can see or feel. I also don't have the scientific skills to go through those studies for myself to see where the benefits really are, to be able to check whether eating a certain number of portions of veg has been separated from other factors. I can't tell, for example, if it's just that healthier people tend to eat more healthily anyway or if they have really proved causality.

It doesn't seem to me to be as clear cut as smoking or drinking large amounts.

Hardly any of the illnesses that have been listed are caused just by not having your 5 a day. The only ones that are - scurvy and rickets I think - are only seen in young children.

@OhToBeASeahorse

Sorry but this is ridiculous- if you're describing cooking an omelette as far too much effort i honestly have no idea why people are still trying to help.

I think some people have misunderstood the point of the thread. The point is to have a discussion about the benefits of healthy eating. It wasn't 'tell me what I should eat and I will immediately do it'. I could obviously say that yes, I will cook an omelette tonight and then not do it. I'm not sure why that would be better. If someone not eating healthily annoys you - I'm not sure why it would, it doesn't impact you at all - then, you don't need to be on the thread.

"If I were of a cynical or suspicious disposition, I would think that you were getting some sort of strange satisfaction from arguing with - and off-the-point nitpicking with - dozens of people who have been generous enough to share their experiences and/or take time to give you the advice and information that you asked for in your original post."

I haven't argued with anyone who's said 'I eat healthily and it makes me feel great'. I'm always grateful for that experience.

I have disagreed with people who say things like 'It takes the same amount of time to prepare veg from scratch as to make a sandwich because I know that's not true and I have corrected people who say I'm rotting my teeth and making myself fat because I've mentioned many times in the thread that I watch my weight and am relatively careful with my teeth because I can feel the bad effect there.

"OP I didn't say 'a majority' or even 'most'. What I said was 'many', and that is true."

I haven't counted them, but I think it's more interesting that MORE people have said that they don't see an immediate impact. Again, I haven't counted so it might just be my perspective.

" I would suggest however that you need help."

You need help is a really insulting thing to say, as I'm sure you know, so I'll ignore that as you seem to be trying to get a rise out of me.

@Gwenhwyfar eh?! Your title is 'persuade me eating healthily is worth it'.

Don't think it's me that is confused. You crack on with your cheese sandwiches. It literally.makes no difference to my life at all. But I do hate to see well meaning posters waste their time.

OP There really is nothing to "discuss". Scientists and medics agree. Healthy eating - in the form of the Mediterranean Diet - has been studied in several different ways for over 50 years.

Of course exercise and genetics and environement play a part in a healthy lifestyle , but these studies have found that healthy eating BY ITSELF reduces the risk of serious diseases and increases longevity.

This is the summary (abstract) of a a recent (2015) article in a very authoritative scientific journal. I have underlined the key sentence:

"The Mediterranean diet (MD) emerged as a healthy food regimen long before it could be recognised which nutrients or foods were responsible for its observed benefits, and it was only in the middle of the last century that the first scientific approach 'The Seven Countries Study' appeared. Epidemiological and anthropological studies of the MD converged, first by investigating at single nutrients or foods, then by adopting the more holistic approach of dietary patterns (DP), and now with a molecular approach. These studies resulted in convincing evidence that a MD decreases the risk of all-cause mortality and cardiovascular mortality and incidence. A risk reduction of developing type 2 diabetes is probable. Evidence is less stringent for other metabolic diseases and all cancers but from possible to probable for some cancer sites. Although DP showed that the MD has to be considered in its totality, olive oil could have a specific role. Lifestyle factors such as physical activity for energy balance, outdoor life for vitamin D synthesis and conviviality are also probably partly responsible for the health benefits. The MD is a lifestyle well suited for coping not only with personal health but also with wider societal concerns in relation to environment, public health and economy. "

source: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26148921/

Here is the full text of the article:
www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-nutrition/article/mediterranean-diet-health-science-and-society/2AD00DAC00E6C5AA6139F81A9D12A37C

There really is not much more to say.

And, as seahorse says, you asked for help in your original post. That is all anyone is trying to do. If we on this thread can't persuade you, then I really hope that you can find help elsewhere to understand why healthy eating is important.

OP I hope you are not role modelling your unhealthy diet to your children.

OP Just one last point:

I honestly did not mean to be insulting and I am of course sorry if you feel offended.

As the summary I quoted above says, scientists have investigated how healthy eating affects our bodies at the minutest 'molecular' level, by studying the amazing biochemical processes that go on all the time within our bodies' cells to transform the food we eat into well-maintained flesh and blood and to give us energy : simply, to keep us alive and in good - healthy - repair. We are of course not aware of these microscopic processes as they happen; often we only notice the - unhealthy- results much later when the processes go wrong or fail and cause damage and make us ill.

So just because you can't, right this moment, feel that an unhealthy diet is bad for you, it doesn't mean that it is not doing you harm in a slow, microscopic, currently-unnoticeable way.

I wish you well, and good health.

Gwenhwyfar - just an observation....are you happy??
Mood and a positive outlook can both be boosted from eating healthy food. That alone should make you maybe want to try?!

OP I think this is such an interesting thread. But I think there's a fundamental issue in the sense that there are very few instances where doctors can actually say doctors your x disease was 100% caused by y. We, as in known science, simply don't know enough about medicine and the human body to be able to give 100% and absolute certainties across the board. We have convincing evidence of whatever, but there are hardly ever 100 percents.

Personally I don't eat much junk because I feel bloated and tired after pasta, chocolate gives me energy for an hour and then I'm tired. But I grew up eating healthy food - my mum was all over superfoods and nutrition the moment I started eating solids - so I have never really eaten refined carbs long term, I don't know how a person would feel if they lived off white bread and cheese for weeks.

Also, I have to say I don't think any ready meal can be described as healthy! Even if it's a veg stew it will have a list of twenty ingredients including things that are not recognisable as food. I don't think you could get the "feel" of eating healthy food from ready meals. I think that if you cooked healthy stuff from scratch for 2 weeks you would start to feel good. First week will be withdrawal from the white bread and chocolate so you will probably feel like you've been run over. But in the second you will feel good!

Hi OP, just curious about what else you eat other than the cheese sandwiches and moderate amounts of biscuits/chocolate? What would you have for a typical evening meal?

@Flossie44

Gwenhwyfar - just an observation....are you happy?? Mood and a positive outlook can both be boosted from eating healthy food. That alone should make you maybe want to try?!

I'm quite happy considering the circumstances - forced working from home and lockdown. I'm totally bored being stuck at home all the time, but reasonably happy and stable now I've got used to it.

"OP I think this is such an interesting thread. But I think there's a fundamental issue in the sense that there are very few instances where doctors can actually say doctors your x disease was 100% caused by y. We, as in known science, simply don't know enough about medicine and the human body to be able to give 100% and absolute certainties across the board. We have convincing evidence of whatever, but there are hardly ever 100 percents."

Yes, if you smoke and you get lung cancer, doctors are likely to say that is the cause. If you're an alcoholic and you get a liver problem, same thing. It just doesn't seem as clear cut with fruit and veg.

"Also, I have to say I don't think any ready meal can be described as healthy! Even if it's a veg stew it will have a list of twenty ingredients including things that are not recognisable as food. I don't think you could get the "feel" of eating healthy food from ready meals. "

I disagree with that. Not all ready meals are full of preservatives and the like. And I think for someone like me, they may be better than nothing if you see what I mean. I'm sure I've bought cans of soup in the past that don't seem to be high in salt or have many bad things in them, also steam pouches of veg that you put in the microwave and things like that. Even if not ideal, I think they may be a better option for me than just cheese sandwiches all the time.

@Correlation

Hi OP, just curious about what else you eat other than the cheese sandwiches and moderate amounts of biscuits/chocolate? What would you have for a typical evening meal?

A few people have asked this and I've realised I don't really know! I went shopping last night while I was in this discussion so I actually bought healthy things! I'll eat the odd healthy thing if it's really easy to make like aubergine cooked in the microwave with grated cheese on top (buy it pre-grated of course). I've got a veg risotto meal in the freezer and I'll either have that tonight or I'll buy a pizza.

Sometimes I do eat cheese sandwiches twice in one day or I'll have cheese sandwiches for lunch and then cheese and pasta or pizza for dinner, which I know is not good!

Your posts are interesting to me because you sound like someone who doesn't plan or think about the future. Are you ambitious for yourself? I don't want to be the 70 year old on the plane who needs help getting her bag into the hold. I want to be the 80 year old who is supple from yoga and has the best posture in the room. I have had close family members die in the 60s and early 70s and they had so much life left, and were vibrant, but got zapped by a cancer.
Like Spike Milligan, you can put on your gravestone "See, I told you I didn't need my 5 a day". That's if you go after 80. Under 65 and it changes to "Bugger, why did I eat so many cheese sandwiches".
😁

*I meant bag into overhead locker on the plane.
Duh.. Covid has robbed me of my travel vocabulary.

Is anyone thinking Wallace and Grommit

OP You are quite right. The steam pouches would be FAB for you. Brilliant! Eat as many as you can. With an omelette or cold meat or cold salmon or cold tuna and tomatoes if you can be bothered and a dressing of olive oil and vinegar or lemon juice or even with a little strong cheese such as parmesan sprinkled on top.

But are you really, honestly saying that you can't tell the nutritional difference between a can of very processed soup and a pouch of fresh veg to microwave?

Yes, the soup-makers (in tins) will say that a serving might be 'one of your five a day'. But that (disingenously) assumes that your other 5 servings will be full of fibre, such as porridge. But so - vastly - would wholemeal seedy bread. And baked potatoes in their skins - they are usually pretty easy to digest.

But onwards and upwards, OP. If you like microwaved veg, that's a huge step forwards. Congratulations.

As you are already in your 40s I wouldn't class you as physically young any more and the "long term" effects of a poor diet may be not far away.

I find that ready meals are vastly improved by adding some veg.

Easy enough to rinse a handful or two of spinach or chopped kale and put it on the plate then upturn the ready meal on top.

Or if you add cheese to something, slice a few mushrooms, tomato or a courgette, or some thin slices of leek or spring onion or something.

OP if you need to be convinced why don’t you have a blood test for vitamin and mineral levels (your GP may be willing to do this if you explain or if not, you can get these on the internet (thriva is a good provider). I can guarantee you will be deficient in some areas if you are living off cheese sandwiches.

Of course, up to you if you believe in the research which has identified optimal levels for these....

Your body gets used to what you eat. If you are used to eating rubbish your body will want more rubbish. You need to retrain your body to want good food. The only way to do this is to put yourself on a meal plan of healthier foods, and keep to it for at least a year (this is the long haul).

I know this from experience. I was pretty much border line (or over the line) compulsive over eating disorder. I retrained myself to eat normally and eat well.

Its a hard slog, but you can retrain your body to crave healthier foods.

"Your posts are interesting to me because you sound like someone who doesn't plan or think about the future. "

That's true. I see it as something very abstract. There's also that saying 'you may not live longer if you ... (eat healthily, give up drink, whatever) but it will seem like it'.

As I said above, I might get run down by a bus at age 60 anyway.

My family is generally quite long living (one centenarian g.grandparent, other grandparents all over 85) and none of them were salad munchers.