Do doctors have to be present at a birth

[User26161]

While in training?

It is part of the medical school training to do obs and gynae placement with the idea they should see at least one normal birth. Often doesn’t happen however as student midwives take the priority, they have limited days on birth centre/labour ward, poor attitude to caring for a woman through her labour and not just dropping in for the birth, women more likely to refuse medical students

I was asked if I minded a student doctor being in the room. I also had a student anaesthetist do my epidural

They’re supposed to see ten while training.

They have to see a certain amount but you can always refuse students. I was once asked if I minded a if they had observer./students I said no I dind,t mind. Then there was a whole row of people. The procedure wasn,t intimate but still it was a bit of a shock. (No that i minded but felt I could have been better informed.)

I’d rather been seen by a trainee for their first birth experience than find the fully qualified doctor hadn’t seen any previous births and I was indeed his first!

So probably best they do see births whilst training.

@mintich Just a minor correction. You won't have had a "student" anaethetist do your epidural. You may very well have had an anaesthetist in training do it - but they will be a qualified doctor and have been working for a couple of years at least or longer already.

Pythonesque, I was just going to say the same thing! As a retired anaesthetist I remember the days when patients didn’t even realise we were doctors, let alone specialists who’d done an extra seven years training after graduating medical school. My “trainee” anaesthetist colleagues were in their early thirties.

They don’t have to be no, you can refuse to have students or trainees in the room. I just had midwives, but if a junior doctor asked to be there I probably would have said yes. To be honest Father Christmas could have been in the room and I wouldn’t have given a flying fuck.

@Babdoc

Pythonesque, I was just going to say the same thing! As a retired anaesthetist I remember the days when patients didn’t even realise we were doctors, let alone specialists who’d done an extra seven years training after graduating medical school. My “trainee” anaesthetist colleagues were in their early thirties.

@Babdoc sadly still today many patients don't realise anaesthetists are doctors.

@mintich

I was asked if I minded a student doctor being in the room. I also had a student anaesthetist do my epidural

A student anaesthetist will have been qualified as a Doctor for a few years already.

Sorry, just raft and saw a couple of pp’s have already stated this.

Raft = RTFT.

A student doctor delivered my first baby. It was her first baby too

I was asked and said yes, I was having a forceps delivery which was on a tick list for them to see. I had 4 medical students staring straight up my vagina but by that point I couldn’t have cared less. If the forceps delivery hadn’t worked I would have needed a c section as my son was in distress all I cared about was delivering a healthy baby. He was fine if a little squished.

I’ve had 4 babies and I think I only had drs with first as he was forceps, I also had a epidural only worked down one side was horrific. Thankfully it didn’t put me off, however my 3 further deliveries were uneventful. I’d have let drs/midwives/students observe but with the last 2 they’d have needed to be quick as I didn’t make it to the delivery suite with either

I once had a student doctor /trainee surgeon (not sure exactly but he wasn't fully qualified) give me a chest drain

I was pretty ill at the time but figured getting the fluid off my lungs a bit quicker would get be better sooner - and if you don't allow people to practise, how do they learn?

There were so many people in the room - trainees observing, the chap doing it (quite nervous but very thankful I was letting him have a go) and a couple of doctors supervising the whole thing.
They all then came back the next day to check on me - felt like a minor celeb (for all of 5 mins)

Had a student doctor at my daughter’s birth - she was flipping amazing!

OK - my information is seriously dated (1980s ish) when student doctors had to attend 10 (?) births.

That didn't mean be there as a spectator. It mean act as birth attendant ie deliver the baby (under supervision)

It's a good thing for doctors to experience normal delivery

Yes it's part of medical school. Of course the patient can decline to have students in the room, and the students are always supervised.

It's not compulsory to actually deliver a baby at many med schools now, but all students will spend some time on labour ward and ideally that should include being with the midwives and seeing "normal" birth rather than just following the doctors around.

I had a student doctor present at DS1's birth, they were very encouraging!

I suppose you could still call me a "student anaesthetist." I've been a doctor for 11 years, working in anaesthetics for 8 (with some time out for mat leave/part time work), have put in literally hundreds of epidurals, and am about to complete my advanced training in obstetric anaesthesia. But I'm still in training till 2023!

@mummyme87 spoken like a midwife. As a medical student having spent 12 hours with a lady to be bumped by a midwifery student (who'd only just arrived) multiple times, medical students learn quickly to grab what they can!

@Mummyme87

It is part of the medical school training to do obs and gynae placement with the idea they should see at least one normal birth. Often doesn’t happen however as student midwives take the priority, they have limited days on birth centre/labour ward, poor attitude to caring for a woman through her labour and not just dropping in for the birth, women more likely to refuse medical students

That’s a shame. I had such a lovely medical student at the birth of DD1. It was the first birth she’d seen and she came into the ward later to visit us to say hello and congratulations. A while later (I’m not sure if months or a year or 2) I saw her at the GP practice and she remembered us. I often think of her actually.

@mintich

I was asked if I minded a student doctor being in the room. I also had a student anaesthetist do my epidural

That was a fully qualified doctor in specialist training to be an anaesthetist . 5 or 6 years in medical school, followed by 2 years general training in hospital; then up to 9 years of specialist training in anaesthetics.

They'll all do obs and gynae modules whilst at medical school, then they might get placed there as part of their 2 foundation years but not guaranteed. Then if they choose to go into obs and gynae they will definitely witness births, but as doctors are only involved in high risk, or complex births, multiples or where you need intervention (vontouse or forceps) they'll rarely observe "normal" births.

Anaesthetic trainees will also be present and trained in epidurals and c sections.

Paediatric trainees will also train in complex/multiples/section delivery

Why do you ask?

Some medical students have no interest in obstetrics so trying to convince them to hang around for hours of labour is sometimes hard. Of course they should always (and mostly do) treat women with respect and not just expect to pop in for the last ten minutes.

But they do need to prioritise where they need to be, they have teaching sessions scheduled throughout the day they need to go to, they might decide to go back to accommodation and try and sleep and come back for the night shift.

The best support I have ever seen anyone give a woman in labour (and I include midwifes, midwifery students and partners in this) was from a medical student seeing his first birth. He stayed with that woman for hours (she had no partner). He held her so she could squat, he helped her to the loo, he changed incos, he got snacks, he held her hand and encouraged her all the way. We all cried when the baby was born, the bond they formed was amazing and yes she did name the baby after him (middle name I think). He was amazing and I told him he’d make a great midwife or doula.