O levels, A levels, gcse, independent school, public school private school

[fandigo]

I was just wondering if someone could explain the entire UK education system to me. What's the difference between O levels, A levels, GCSE's. And from my years on Mumsnet there seems to be state schools, private schools, independent schools, comps, grammar schools (probably missing a few). It would be great to understand how it all works because often threads are hard to follow when i don't get the basics or the angst about choosing a school.

O(rdinary) levels were replaced by GCSEs in late 1980s so anyone who took O levels is nearly 50 or over 50. They are taken aged 15/16 in year 11. A(dvanced) levels are exams taken in yr13 (confusingly often called sixth form) and generally only 3 or 4 are taken prior to University. Some children take IB (international baccalaureate) instead.

England and Wales, Pre-1988:

16 years old: O Levels
18 years old: A levels

England and Wales, 1988-1999:
16: GCSEs
18: mainly linear A-levels, although some AS levels

England Wales, 1999-2016:
16: GCSEs
17: AS levels
18: A2 levels

E&W, 2016-present:

16: GCSEs (9-1 grades)
18: A-levels (linear)

I think that covers it. No idea about the Scottish/NI system.

O levels no longer exist, replaced in 1980s by gcse - both usually taken at 16, A levels are taken at 18 after 2 years study.
State schools are funded by government via Local Authorities, free to all
independent schools are fee paying, often selective especially at secondary. Public Schools are a sub set of these, often going back several centuries and traditionally boarding - think Eton, Harrow etc

Firstly this is the English system- they don’t have GCSEs or A levels in Scotland, they have national fives, highers and advanced highers

O levels- olden days GCSEs.
GCSEs- Done at 16. This is the minimum you have to do while at school, you do 8-12 ish subjects.
A levels- done at 18, 3-4 subjects.
State schools- free schools funded by the tax payer. Grammar schools are also state schools but academically selective (you have to do an 11 plus exam). A comp is a state school again, but non selective. 93% of the population go to state school.
An independent school is independent of local authority/ government
Private school- fee paying
Public school- v expensive fee paying! (There is more to it then that but that’s the gist)

Grammar schools are selective secondaries - some state, some independent.
Comprehensives are mixed ability state secondaries
Some state schools are faith schools and receive funding from relevant religion.

Private schools (often confusingly called public schools) are fee-paying.

There are different types of grammar school:

Pre-1970ish (and to this day in some counties of England) you took an exam at 11 and, if you passed, you went to grammar school, and if you failed, you went to secondary modern.

Nowadays, the grammar school system remains in various places (Kent, Bucks, Lincs for example), where this still happens.

There are super-selective grammars, mainly around London, who take the very top children who might otherwise go to a top public school.

Comprehensive schools are just that, they take local children from 11 regardless of ability, and are government (under)funded.

Private school and independents are the same thing. You pay to send your child there. The better ones have testing to get in, others will take pretty much anyone who can pay.

State schools are free, and are mostly comprehensive schools which will take all children (subject to proximity to the school).

Grammar schools are selective state schools.

There is more to it than that, but that's a simple primer for you.

State schools in England are free to attend, but parents pay for uniform, food and stationery. There are different funding routes. Some are faith schools, often founded a long time ago, often Church of England (especially at primary, although there are some secondary) or Catholic (both primary and secondary). In NI and Scotland there are slightly different arrangements. Admission to some faith schools will be on the basis of church attendance, baptism etc. Comp(rehensive)s are secondary schools which cater for the full range of academic abilities. Academies are similar but with a more expensive uniform (often) and might be able to select some of its pupils on ability. Grammar schools are only in some areas, they select on the basis of a test taken in yr6 (aged 10/11) called the 11 plus. Free schools are also state funded but newly established in about the last 10 years. They are founded by parents/ interest/ faith groups but education is paid for by the state.

State schools are free and available to all. Comprehensive and grammar schools are both secondary state schools. There are not very many grammar schools now and they select by a test at age 10/11. Comprehensive schools, if over subscribed select by things like religion or where you live.

Private and independent schools are the same thing and parents pay for those. Smaller class sizes and more facilities. Some are selective others are not.

Most schools in both systems are split into primary - age 5-11 and secondary- age 11-16 or 18. There are also 6th form colleges which just cover that last two years.

Some areas have middle school (not sure if the age range)

In the independent sector there are also prep and public schools. Prep is age 7-13 and public age 13-18. They often offer boarding and are even more expensive. There is also Pre prep in this system 5-7.

Also preschool or nursery which is not compulsory and starts at between 2.5 and 3 and is often attached to a primary school.

Thanks everyone. Definitely clears some things up.

I have heard of the 11 plus: so basically you sit an exam when you're 11 and if you do really well you go to a grammar school? And do grammar schools focus more on academics than non grammar schools?

Also - if you plan to go to university do you need to do A levels in subjects relevant to what you hope to study? Or could someone hypothetically do English, maths and biology and and then go to university and study accounting?

Ah yes, nursery. Is this basically a free crèche but on the school grounds? I've heard about the "free hours" once your child turns 3 but assumed you could choose whatever setting you wanted and the cost was covered.

Universities tend to select applicants who have done relevant subjects. So you'd never get onto a medicine course with a levels in History, French and Spanish.

Grammar schools were originally designed for more academic kids. These days they tend to be ridiculously competitive and kids do 2 years of tutoring to get in. The kids at grammar schools tend to get excellent results though.

School nurseries tend to take children for full or half days and this is usually the 15 hours. They go from 3 until school age (5) and for a few children they have provision for two year olds.

There are different types of nursery. There is the nursery class in a school which as KindergartenKop says offers mainly the free hours from 3. There are also private nurseries which offer full time care (8-6) from babies upwards. There are also pre-schools which are like school nurseries but often run in a village/ church hall independently of any school. Mainly offering the free hours 15/30 but also often with the possibility of starting younger or more hours if you pay.

Grammar schools might offer an additional language and there might be fewer creative choices at GCSE than those schools for those who don't pass. Almost everyone will do triple science and some will do further maths. It is possible to do most academic subjects at those schools for students who haven't passed (if you are fussy they are termed secondary moderns, but most will style themselves as a comp). In fact my dc at the 'comp' is planning to do more academic GCSEs than sibling at grammar. If I gave you the list of GCSEs you would almost certainly think the non grammar was the grammar. The main difference is in the pupils, parents and grammar schools are often single sex so fewer distractions (secondary moderns might also be girls or boys schools, sometimes then mixed at sixth form for A levels). Pupils whose parents pay for years of tutoring as well as often private school will also pay for top up tutors if necessary too. This is possibly more in the selectives (top 20-25%) than superselectives (top 2-5%) however a grammar school is a miserable place to be if you are struggling. Non grammar schools will usually offer a sixth-form, generally with a similar range of topics, but more likely to have creative subjects too.

Not everyone stays at sixth-form for years 12-13. Some will go to 'college'. These will also offer A levels but will also usually offer a wider range of vocational qualifications too (tourism, childcare, hairdressing, trades). Some children are fed up of school and like the additional independence of college. Some areas have traditionally tended to have movement at 16, so their secondary school might not even have a 'sixth-form' so will stop at year 11 after GCSEs.

It does also depend on the University, with a maths A level accountancy would be fine, although I think for many accountancy has more postgraduate qualifications so you might study say politics at university then get a job in an accountancy firm who will then put you through additional qualifications. Similar for law. Although you can study law at undergraduate level I think it is the masters which qualifies you to practice and you might study history say then do a law degree. For other areas though you would need to be doing a specialist undergraduate- say marine biologists would have a biological degree of some type having done biology A level. For languages you would need a language A level, but for psychology you don't need psychology A level.

As you can see the system is really simple, can't think why anyone would get confused 😆😆.

Also - if you plan to go to university do you need to do A levels in subjects relevant to what you hope to study?

Yes

Or could someone hypothetically do English, maths and biology and and then go to university and study accounting?

Also yes, confusingly.

The need for specific A-levels is stronger for STEM and vocational subjects than it is for, say, humanities. Subjects such as accounting fall somewhere in the middle, in that Maths would be helpful but some universities wouldn’t require it. Economics or Business Studies might also be seen as relevant but not be required and this would vary a lot from university to university.

Then we have a whole lot of variety in our higher education institutions, and high all call themselves “universities” now, but some are ancient, some are “red brick”(Victorian origins), some are “plate glass” (1960s origins), and some are former polytechnics, teacher training colleges, art colleges free s or nursing schools. So there all sorts of invisible distinctions and hierarchies.

GCSEs tend to have core subjects so most students will study maths, English language, English literature, two or three sciences. To be included in the Ebacc (English Baccalaureate) figures you need to be grade 5 or above in them plus a language and either History or Geography. Many schools will therefore set their GCSE options so you will tick the Ebacc box. You would therefore have to do at least two sciences, either History or Geography and a language. As most children only do 10 GCSEs, sometimes fewer this can really limit the creative options available, so some schools ignore the Ebacc. It is a school measure rather than a pupil measure.

There is also the progress 8 score which ranks secondary schools on the grades a child gets at 16 compared to those they got when they left primary to see how much progress they have made compared to others with similar SATs scores across the country. The average progress 8 for a school is then published in league tables.

Should say Ebacc is grade 5 or above in either English language or English literature.

The GCSEs from 1989 took over from the GCE ( O Level) and CSE system. The CSE was taken by less academic pupils and its top grade was equivalent to a C at GCE. GCSEs combined the two exams so it could fit both the less able and more academic pupils.

I was just wondering if someone could explain the entire UK education system to me.

There’s no entire U.K. education system, do you want to know about Scotland and Northern Ireland or did you mean the entire English system?

There are only state grammar schools in some parts of the country there are only 163 in total in England. The majority of pupils go to comprehensives at 11.

Jellycatspyjamas I sort of get Scotland end of feb cut off date, primary deferral, Primary, Secondary, Catholic/non denominational but then it gets slightly hazy around qualifications. I know it used to be possible to start uni as early as 16, not sure if you still can. Have no idea really about N.I. I think that there are different faith grammar schools, whereas in England faith schools are all/mainly non selective on academic ability. Also Wales. I think their qualifications are broadly similar but what is the difference in Welsh content in a Welsh medium school and a non-Welsh medium school? Obviously not expecting you to be an expert in all three other systems!

I have heard of the 11 plus: so basically you sit an exam when you're 11 and if you do really well you go to a grammar school

The exam is usually taken at 10 (some may have turned 11 depending on birthday date) bc it's in the academic year before they start secondary, which is age 11.

Only a minority of areas still have state grammars though.

There are also a few schools called grammars, which are private (fee paying) - these are ancient grammars which opted to go private in the 60s when their area moved to the comprehensive system.

@Jellycatspyjamas genuinely didn't know Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would have different systems. I incorrectly assumed it would be all the same.

It's definitely not straightforward. Thanks for all the detailed explanations. I thought sixth form and college were the same thing but obviously not.

And it seems the word nursery is used in lieu of 'crèche' which is what we say where i live. That's cleared things up.

Do people generally feel the system works or does it need an overhaul (simplification) ?

I'm always surprised on here when 19 year olds post that they work full time in a fulfilling career and own their own home. But if you have the option to leave school at 16 that could be possible.

Education or training such as an apprenticeship is compulsory until 18 in England. Nursery/preschool are often interchangeable from age 3 and fall under Foundation Stage which also includes Reception , the first year of primary school. Some schools and children's centres offer nursery from 2 or 3 , other settings may be standalone and usually privately run with access to government Early Years funded hours. If parents work school based nurseries and preschools may not offer long enough hours for full time childcare.

Generally these days you can't leave education at 16, although of course some are home educated and never go to school. I imagine those with fulfilling careers are either blogger type careers or maybe working in trades/ family business. Certainly for most, especially in the South of England, owning a home is out of reach for many years.

I guess the system works OK if you are familiar with the area you live in. It gets more confusing if you move between areas.