Is this what you’d call a ‘toxic’ friend?

[Katie559]

I’ve got a friend who lives locally. Recently I’ve started to feel more wary of her.
She can be incredibly thoughtful and kind..putting little notes through friends’ doors with lovely messages in them, coming round with flowers if something great/dreadful happens, passing on old clothes, buying nice treats if you’re sick, throwing lovely dinners. She can be kind to the extent that she has the ability to make other friendships feel almost quite ‘bland’ (obviously they’re not, I don’t mean that in a horrible way..my other friends are lovely..just more trying to describe how she can come across in relation to most other people).
She can also be incredibly unkind. She can be hugely cutting and bitchy about people, and doesn’t cut people much slack. She is also flakey and doesn’t think anything of letting people down. When she talks she can come across as inconsistent ie being quite cutting about someone, then arranging a walk with them the next day. She is not hugely empathetic...she is better at sympathy than empathy. Even then it can feel like once the moment of drama has passed, her attention moves on. In sum, she is not very trustworthy.
This friend will always be in my life to some extent but I’m starting to question how genuine she is.
If you read the above, what would you think?

She may have ADHD, which isn’t her fault.

Everyone has good and bad points. If she is kind and generous and there in bad times then those are really good traits. If she is flaky and unreliable then those are not but I suppose it depends on the impact she has in your life overall.

I had a work friend who was a bit like this. She was very nice and got excited and she did do some nice things. She was the kind of person everyone enjoyed being around.

But she was also unrealisable and flaky. She would make plans and then break them at the last minute or turn up late. There was always a reason / excuse but I came to expect that of her so I stopped making plans with her as I found it so frustrating to make plans with her and then be let down. I still liked her high energy and kindness but I knew she didn't follow through on things.

She is a nice person and I'm not saying I wouldn't see her again but we haven't spoken in a while and I don't have plans to see her.

If I make plans with someone I expect them to show up. I don't find it cute or funny for them to turn up with a dramatic story about why they're half an hour late. Some people wouldn't mind it so much so it depends on what kind of person you are.

Another thing is people are not always aware of the things they of or how they come across. I've certainly learned a lot about myself over the years.

I think I could be bitchy (probably still can!) and I didn't see anything wrong with it as a lot of the females in my family were like that. They'd make negative comments about people and so it seemed normal to me but I have learned growing up that not everyone does that snd it's not necessary. So maybe if there is a way to make her aware of how she comes across them she might give it some thought.

I don't think I'd call her toxic from what you have said.

Thank you so much. It’s always interesting to get different perspectives

I wouldn't say toxic. My toxic ex friend would bitch about me to others. Or invite all my friends out but not me, if she was jealous of something. Spread rumours about my DC. That kind of thing. She would dump you at the last minute for a better offer. I caught her doing that once. Then turn up with a cake as though nothing had happened. I don't miss her.

That sounds quite a lot like me!

I do those things. Have a generous nature but simultaneously can’t stand some people. Particularly people who I don’t think do things very well. Must be a reflection of how hard I am on myself or something?

I think I might be her 😬.

I get very het up in the 'performative' elements of friendship and think that I have to do all these things to be worthy of having people like me. I know in my heart of hearts it's probably not necessary to be like this but I can't help myself.

I'm not sure about the bitchiness but I wonder if she is just desperate to be liked and included and gets a buzz off bitching about people who seem less included and successful as she promotes herself as.

I'm not sure she sounds toxic, just hugely immature. Someone to be extremely wary of, anyway.

Sorry, I wrote immature and meant to write insecure.

Although there might be an immaturity element to it, too!

I know someone like this, reminds me of the nursery rhyme, when she was good she was very very good and when she was bad she was horrid. My ex friend was thoughtful generous and sugary sweet with her words when talking to you, but when she turned, what a bitch!! Out and out nastiness, she's not popular with the other mums because they always say 'if she speaks like that about xxx what is she saying about me?'

I’m not sure toxic is the right description but I know what you mean, and know someone who fits your description. I’m pleasant and civil to her, but can’t quite trust her. Also, sometimes, it’s all about her, and even the acts of kindness, are to draw attention to her. ‘Look at me’. I know what you mean about blandness also. Her generosity makes the rest of us look inadequate.

Personally, the flaking on arrangements would not endear me on its own. I have binned one friendship in my life over someone’s repeat offences in this area. Otherwise, I’d enjoy the positives but I would advise you not to share any personal information with this person that you would not want shared elsewhere. I’d also keep it very light with her, as I sense someone who would be in the middle of a drama in a blink.

I also don’t think anything you’ve written amounts to being toxic, someone to be cautious of yes but not toxic. I think when you meet someone truly toxic you won’t be asking for opinions on whether you’re right but more “how do I get away from toxic friend”, this process can take a while I’all admit but they do “reveal” themselves eventually.

Would you feel comfortable talking to her about the flakiness? If she's an otherwise good friend it could be that she's oblivious to how much of a problem it is if no-one's pointed it out. As for being bitchy, it depends - I have several friends who will say mean things about people behind their backs, probably including me, but there's a strong bond underneath that and when push comes to shove they'll absolutely have those same people's backs. On the other hand, I know other people who really dislike their supposed 'friends' but don't have the courage to say anything to them directly, so they end up constantly sniping about them to other people instead. Depending where she is on that spectrum would affect how much it bothered me.

I think what I'm trying to say with the last bit is that there's a big difference between people who fake being nice to you because they're cowards or because they want something, then say horrible things about you behind your back because it's what they really feel, vs people who are nice to you because they actually like you, and occasionally bitch because they're venting about some minor thing that's too trivial to be worth upsetting you over by saying it to your face. Everyone does the second to some extent, but the first is obviously a dealbreaker.

I think I am that friend

I would have no particular problem with her behaviour. The bland combination of ‘niceness’, regular ‘checking in’ and self-deprecation that seems so often to pass for ‘genuine’ on Mn doesn’t do anything for me. I choose to have people around me who fundamentally interest me, and you say yourself she makes other friendships look ‘bland’.

I know someone like this and I have little to nothing to do with her.

I cannot be doing with people who blow hot and cold.

She's not genuine, she's doing the good stuff because she wants to be seen to be the best friend there could be, but genuine friends aren't nasty and don't bitch.

I’m torn. In the one hand I know someone who I think is like this, performative charismatic friendship, but so quick to judge alleged friends, or suiting herself at the expense of others. I keep her at arms length as I think being genuine and trustworthy is more important in a friend than all this gestures.
On the other hand it rather comes down to perception, as a few PP have pointed out- through a different lens maybe I could be seen as being a friend who is full of gestures when it suits me, but maybe inconsiderate at other times? And I don’t see myself as similar at all to the person I know who reminds me if your friend.
This is the time to rely on your extremely reliable gut instinct. All hinges on whether she is genuine, and maybe just a person who speaks as she finds at times, and recognises her own needs, or is she a charismatic narcissist, making grand gestures to ensure she is well liked, but when there’s nothing to be gained, shows a side that is unnecessarily unkind and inconsiderate, towards her own friends.
What do you think @Katie559

She may have ADHD, which isn’t her fault

I must have missed the part in the DSM that says ADHD causes bitchiness and slagging people off behind their backs, and thriving on drama.

It matters less whether or not she's toxic, and more whether the pros outweigh the cons of keeping her in your life. What kinds of friendships you want to have.

I think it is possible she could be toxic, that the generosity phase is like "hoovering" to keep you sucked in, and then the nastiness is the mask slipping off and her true nature showing.

Personally I wouldn't be comfortable with a friendship like that whether or not I could categorise it as "toxic" specifically. It would just be uncomfortable and stressful to me and that's enough to decide that it's not for me.

I know someone like this, who does grand gestures with lovely words and appears to be the nicest friend you could have. I think it's a control thing myself. It's done to impress and keep people onside.

However she blows hot and cold, is very competitive, no one is 'good enough', has really bad moods, can be verbally aggressive if your view is different to hers or she feels someone is luckier/cleverer than her, and is very snappy. Not a lot of respect for many people and it's her way or no way..

I know this, others don't and they would be surprised. I was pulled in but had to regain my sense of worth as it was like walking on eggshells. My sympathy and empathy finally wore out after too many unpleasant and personal remarks to me.

i don't know about toxicity, but think it is a personality type where feelings of inadequacy play a large part in many of these difficult friendships. Either choose it or move away from the friendship.

She doesn't sound all bad. So no, I wouldn't consider her toxic.

I have adhd. I dont do any of that shit. So adhd makes you a bitch and slag people of behind thier backs then! What a stupid post

Thank you all for your perspectives. Yes, I find that hot/cold thing very unsettling. I agree with what @FrangipaniBlue said. Also, I think because it is so different to how I am. I’m never going to be the most charismatic, charming person in the room but equally I’m reliable and trustworthy (I hope!). Consistency is really important to me.

My mum always says ‘when people are happy, then they’re kind’ and there’s a lot of truth in that. I think insecurity plays a part. I think @bluebird243 had some really good points.