I hate how weak I am

[Iamarock]

Name changed for this, but I’ve been here for a long time.

I think I have ruined my daughters life, and I don’t know what to do.

About 6 years ago my daughter changed. She stopped working at school, came home when she felt like it, was rude, and violent to us, self harmed, lots more. I think school and social workers thought that something was happening at home, but it wasn’t. We’re incredibly ordinary - mum, dad, two children, comfortably off (not wealthy, but no money worries), nice enough house, no arguments.

We’ve talked about this at length and she insists that nothing has ever happened, she was just bored. I’m convinced that it was something to do with her hormones, as it started when her periods did, and I kept records for a long time, and there was a definite cycle. I took her to the doctors (which wasn’t easy), but dr said it wasn’t, and told her to be a good girl. Not helpful at all.

Though the bad years she had some violent outbursts, mostly towards her older sister, who is far smaller than her, and sometimes to me or my husband. I told her that if she did it again I’d call the police. We had a lot of dealings with the police at this time, and they said I really should do this, so I made sure my daughter was aware.

About two years ago my husband and I were eating and she came in, furious that her sister had used her conditioner. I said I’d talk to her when I’d finished, but she was so angry and said to do it then. I got up to take my plate to the kitchen, and I think she punched it, causing it to hit me in the face hard enough to badly break my glasses, the plate and cut my face. So I called the police, and she was taken in, and the next day given a caution and she came home.

From then on she’s so much better. She’s really back to what she was before. She knows to remove herself if she gets annoyed. She’s helpful around the house, good fun, polite etc.

She loves children and is amazing with them. She’s had loads of work experience, and her dream is to work with them. Today she had an interview at a small nursery, and has been invited to go in for a trial shift tomorrow. She was so so happy, but has just read that her caution will show for 6 years, and said it’s not worth going any further. She was born to work with children. She’s energetic, patient, enthusiastic, and genuinely loves their company, and they adore her.

I’ve ruined her life haven’t I? Why couldn’t I just keep quiet? I don’t know what to say to her other than I’m so sorry (and I am, but I’m also not if that makes sense?).

I don’t even know why I’m posting this

Oh I feel so sad reading this. But you haven’t ruined her life.
A) This is a harsh lesson for her about consequences of actions
B) Get proper advice on disclosure etc as there’s an awful lot of myths out there
C ) Even if that worse case scenario is true, having to wait six years to follow her vocation doesn’t mean a ruined life.
D) You did the right thing. Violence is never acceptable and you were scared for you and her.

Unlock are a great charity for giving advice to people with criminal records of any kind.

I think that if she was under 18 at the time of the caution it's only two years www.ucheck.co.uk/do-dbs-checks-show-cautions/

You don’t need to say sorry.

You did nothing wrong. In fact, your reactions were the catalyst to get changing.

It is a valuable lesson for her to learn that violent outbursts have consequences. She is a different person now.

Try not to be too disheartened. Is she absolutely sure that the caution will prevent her getting the job? They may ask her to explain it.

You shouldn't be apologising to her. She punched a plate you were holding and injured you, that's completely unacceptable and you did the right thing by calling the police.

I also made a mistake (non violent but driving related) which has caused me to lose out on opportunities because of my record. I have accepted this is part of punishment for my behaviour and its just how it is. I've bettered myself and moved forwards with my life, she will too.

Her caution will always show up, because it’s an enhanced disclosure it will always come up even after 6 years.

I employed a staff member who had a caution for sealing. I liked her. I was grilled by ofsted in my inspection so probably wouldn’t again. She also found it hard to her employment when she tired to move on. She probably needs to look at something else.

It’s not your fault though and imho the police were heavy handed to give a caution, rather than a talking to.

I’ve ruined her life haven’t I?

Absolutely not , it sounds like you did the right thing at the time .
Look she needs to learn this is her doing , her actions resulted in consequences.
It could of been someone else she attacked or worse if you didn't call the police so stop beating yourself up about it .
6 years is not long at her age , she can get some qualifications in the time or do something else . But do not blame yourself.

what exactly were the terms of her offence, on the caution?

Turn this round; where would she be now if you hadn't reported the incident to police, as you were advised? You helped her turn her life around, rather that ruining it.

Was it definitely a caution not a community resolution? Did she do any work with professionals as part of the caution? Obviously she'll have to disclose it but she can accompany it with a letter explaining the circumstances and how she's made changes, hence any work that was done with her. Some nursery settings won't take anyone with a violent offence but some will consider based on the individual and their circumstances (IME, I can't speak for everywhere).

I know this is gutting, and I don’t know the legal ins and outs, but god forbid you hadn’t called the police that night and she hadn’t turned herself around.

Are you in a position to gather all the paperwork from that time and take it to the CAB / perhaps more realistically a solicitor, and get their analysis of what it means for her chosen career path?

She needs to be up front and honest with the employers. Having a caution doesn't necessarily mean that she's unemployable in childcare, but each individual employer will have to do their own risk assessment and decide if they still want to employ her.

I'm guessing as she's only just thought of the implications of the caution she didn't declare it at application stage? Might be a tricky conversation to have with the employer if she was asked to disclose any spent or unspent convictions and didn't. But good to know for next time. Honesty is best, as PP says.

Sorry, I’m reading all your responses and googling, but I don’t have much information and she has shut herself in her room and won’t talk. I don’t have access to any paperwork but I believe it was a conditional caution and she had to go to two anger management groups, but after the first one she didn’t have to go back. I think this was down to staff shortages. They rang me and asked if I thought she’d got anything from the group and I said she had, I don’t think this had a bearing on her not doing the second day though.

Thank you all for your responses. I wish I could give more info but this is what I’ve got. I fully expected people to react horribly, after all, what kind of mother calls the police on their own child?

I think, from the odd thing she’s said, she’s planning on going tomorrow although ‘it’s pointless’.

If asked about it, she can explain she was a troubled teen and the incident led her to turn her life around.

She has made it this far, and can feel proud, but if she throws in the towel now she will never know how things can turn out.

You did NOT do wrong in reporting her. She made this happen, not you. If you had allowed her continue on that path, where would she be now? Something she should think long and hard about.

I’ve ruined her life haven’t I? Why couldn’t I just keep quiet? I don’t know what to say to her other than I’m so sorry (and I am, but I’m also not if that makes sense?)

She ruined her own life. You told her you would call the police if she was violent, she was, so you did.

That's on her 🤷‍♀️

This is a very typical reaction from young people faced with the prospect of being held back because of their own behaviour: I expect she's very angry at herself and disappointed. You are not the first nor will you be the last to call the police due to their child's behaviour-sometimes there is nothing else you can do. It would be good to ascertain if you can what she was cautioned for. Sounds like it could be assault and/or criminal damage? If it were just criminal damage then it wouldn't be in her interests to go into vast detail explaining the incident. As PP mentions, something reasonably vague about the offence, difficult period in her life, strained family relationships, then much emphasis on changes made. I do think she needs to have this conversation with them asap though or write to them if she hasn't disclosed at all because otherwise it will look like she hasn't been honest.

Wow you absolutely did the right thing. It sounds like things very much needed to hit rock bottom in order to start getting better.
Did she ever get any help with the anger issues though? I get that she is better after the incident but these things can be deep rooted and I would worry for her future. I had a temper and was angry at times as a teen but I think smashing plates that her mother was holding is another level and I would worry about her controlling her temper around little ones who can be annoying / frustrating quite a lot of the time.

Nope you absolutely did the right thing.

She lost her temper and was violent in a potentially violent albeit accidental way. She got a caution and possibly the reason she got a caution (rather than a telling off) was because she had the previous history of violent outbursts. The good thing is that it has been a lesson and she learned. Perhaps you could have emphasised the direction she was going down more firmly before in the context of her preferred career direction (was it even apparent then?), but she is a growing person and has to make her own choices. The unfortunate result is that she has this on her record. However (I've not read your full thread) she may have the opportunity to explain the caution at interview and it may not be as big a barrier as she thinks.

Op, I called the Police on my DB for financial fraud and he has a caution, for some reason I thought it was permanent (maybe it is for adults) but I had made peace with that as frankly if that is how he acts he should not work with vulnerable people. I was very explicit with him that it is not a criminal record and does not stop him getting other jobs. The police did ask me what I wanted to do, so I knew the consequences but maybe they look on violence differently.

Honestly she is lucky you DID tell the police, and good for her she has changed. It won't hold her back forever and while she may be disappointed going down a negative mindset on it needs to be nipped in the bud.

Just read further up and my understanding is a caution shows up on an enhanced DBS (which is always done for work with kids/vulnerable adults etc.). I wasn't aware of the 6 years thing but maybe that is the case if under 18.

Op I had a look and it seems to say a caution stays for 2 years if issued when under 18.

How can you think you ruined her life if the only thing that straightened her out was you calling the police?
Her behaviour was escalating and it would've only got worse.

You did what you had to do then to help her . You'll do it again.

She should try tomorrow, explain what happened with the caution, that she was young etc and hope for the best.

Good reminder that behaviour has consequences.

What kind of parent calls the police on their child?
A responsible one
A caring one
A frightened one
One who has a child committing an offence

Many years ago (health) we interviewed a candidate for a job, and he disclosed a caution for assault received when he was around or just under 18. He brought it up at interview, explained it and advised us he was a different person now. I think he got the job. (or if he didn't it was not due to the conviction) We appreciated his honesty and it made us think better of him.

What if you hadn't and something awful happened on work experience or something? You absolutely did the right thing.

No, you didn’t ruin her life. You taught her that actions have consequences. Just imagine the path she could have taken if you hadn’t called the police.
Will she talk to you? Maybe point out how far she’s come since the bad years, that she’s learned from her mistakes and that you love her and are proud of her. Many people go through life without managing to do that, she should be proud of herself. And honest with the nursery - if she’s as good with the children as you say, they will see that, and plenty of people have messed up and turned themselves around.