8 year old lying

[LoveM0nster]

I have NC'd because I don't think I've handled this right and I know Mumsnet can be rather unkind. I've put my big girl pants on but I ask you to keep in mind that I'm just a parent doing my best. This is super long.

So DS is just-turned 8. He is in Year 3 at school. He is generally fairly well behaved, he isn't an angel but no big issues - often needs to be told to do stuff several times, sometimes whines a bit, can get over excited and silly etc - usual stuff for his age. He is reasonably polite and, this aside, generally trustworthy.

Recently I've 'caught' him lying several times, always about the same, fairly serious issue. I feel upset about both things - upset that he isn't doing what he needs to (explained further on) and upset that he is lying so regularly and so well. I struggle to find the 'right' punishments - natural consequences don't seem to be appropriate here - and clearly what I'm doing isn't working because he lied again yesterday.

The issue: DS has a health condition that include eczema. His eczema is well managed (regime set out by dermatologist consultant) but if we/he doesn't care for it his skin become red, sore, inflamed and ultimately infected. He has had this strong regime for daily skin care since being an infant. Initially I/DH did all of it, then slowly we got him to take responsibility for more and more of it and this is all just about one step in the process - we still do/supervise various other bits. For the last year or so (might be closer to two years actually) he takes himself for a daily bath and uses his prescription cream as soap - this is a vital step in keeping his skin healthy. It's not hard to do and it only takes a couple of mins. So starting (I believe) about 6 months ago he skips this step whenever he thinks he can get away with it. This results in sore skin but not for a few weeks and he struggles to see the connection even though I have tried to explain. I can't just let him skip the cream and get sorer and sorer as a natural consequence - it would take months to get his skin back on track and would likely result in needing antibiotics.

I ask him directly, everyday, whether he has done his cream and he always claims that he has. Sometimes I press further and he always continues to say that he has - it is actually really quite hard to catch him out. Eventually when confronted by the lack of cream used, the red skin, the clean bath etc he admits that he didn't. On questioning he says that he 'just didn't want to'. He knows that he will get into trouble; he genuinely hates being punished but he just says that he 'really didn't want to do the cream' and that's it. He is often upset by the punishments - more on that next - but it doesn't seem to stop him doing it.

Punishments: I'm not sure what to do for the best honestly. I think i probably go to far but I really worry about his skin! As part of his underlying condition he is at high risk for serious skin infections and has narrowly avoided hospital several times. My go to is 'no treats' or 'no screens' for x amount of time. He is really upset by these - last time it was no treats and no screens for a week and he was in tears and saying that he feels 'so sad' on several days so I really thought it would sink in. But yesterday I caught him out again and he admitted that it had been several days. This time I've said the same again combined with sending him for a shower straight from school (rather than tv time first) and insisting he showers rather than baths (he loves baths). But just don't know what to do!

I have spoken to him about it at length, trying to really understand why and trying to get his input to a punishment that will be effective but he doesn't have much to say beyond what I've put above.

I wonder if the answer is that I have to keep supervising but for how long?? He has a sibling with additional needs and I could do without having to supervise this as well - this is one of the reasons that his current 'punishment' includes showering straight after school - his sibling is watching the tv and it's a better time for me to supervise but he definitely won't want to continue this.

Help!

You thought he was responsible enough to do it himself and he isn't. His lying stems from his not being capable to do it for himself yet. Really you could see it from the angle that it's 'your' mistake as you gave him responsibility that he's not ready to take on. Nothing to feel bad about though, go back a couple of steps and supervise/do it for him until he's ready.

I think you've handled this as well as you possibly can. Eight is a really tricky age. They are physically capable of so much, but they are still so little mentally and emotionally. I think this boils down to him not being ready to take on this responsibility.

I would hand this over to your husband. Every evening he can supervise your son in the bath/shower and make sure his cream is applied. You trying to take this on with needing to attend to your other child is too much and there will be lots of inevitable slip ups.

I would also stop using taking a shower right after school as a punishment. That's not going to help anything.

Well that's an interesting and far less catastrophic way on thinking about it. Thank you.

My husband could supervise, that's definitely an option but would mean changing our evening routine somewhat - generally both kids bath before dinner because that works best for us and DH is not always/often home when they are in the bath but it could be done.

You are both commenting on the cause which is helpful but what about the lying itself - isn't that a concern? He's never lied like this before and I feel quite concerned that he is able to lie and 'get away with it'. Is is really not something to be worried about?

I think you should deal with the lying by talking to him about it and starting the routine of always supervising him in the shower. Explain to him that lying is unacceptable, and it forces you to not be able to trust him fully the way you want to. Sympathise that you understand he may not want to use his cream, but unfortunately it's non-negotiable. His health is priority one, and it must be used. Therefore, because he's not being honest, he will have to be supervised in the shower until he gets with the program.

It sounds like you’re really thinking too much into it.. you have him responsibility, he lost that privilege so now you have to supervise. He’ll get to an age where he doesn’t want mum watching him shower and you can try giving him the responsibility again. Repeat. As for the lying, screen time and no treats sounds pretty appropriate however I wouldn’t bring having a shower into a punishment personally but each to their own.

I agree, change your routine so that your Dh oversees it all.

As he is 8 though I would point out to him all the things you do that you don't want to do too. I think it is important for children to understand that with growing up comes responsibility, so for example point out the household crap that you do on a daily or weekly basis.

Maybe he can then empathise with you and you with him. A sort of I understand your frustration at having to do this routine with your skin, akin to him understanding that if you didn't buy any food there would be nothing to eat.

He doesn’t ‘get away with it’ though as his sore skin is a punishment in itself really.

Is it possible - disclaimer I don’t have kids but have observed this in relatives - that this is something he feels he can control, which kids with chronic health conditions sometimes crave? I’ve known kids with e.g. coeliac disease to deliberately eat things they shouldn’t when not supervised by parents. Then they lie about it. They can’t really explain why but it seems like an attempt to carve out some autonomy.

It sounds like you are great caring parents and I think pp are right and he’s just not ready for it yet

Lying is an important developmental stage op.
And le everything dc related, a phase that passes..
Until something else comes along to stress us out...
Does just sound like he felt embarrassed saying he could not manage himself. Does it involve you /dh seeing him naked at all? Maybe a bit self conscious now!

Does he know the punishment is for lying and not for not using the cream? He needs to know that he won't be punished if he tells the truth. He just faces the consequences of his original actions, eg having to have another shower to use his cream.

As a slight aside baths often exacerbate eczema and showers are better which is a shame when he much prefers a bath

I agree with @Beetlewing. As frustrating (and upsetting) as it is for you to know he’s not done it and it will cause him pain, ultimately he’s demonstrated he’s not responsible enough to do it himself.

Sit him down and explain that. Say you’ll help him from now on, and be sure to make him understand that you’re upset that he lied, because the lie causes him pain which upsets both of you!

I have a just turned 9 year old, it is a tricky age - convinced they’re very grown up, but they’re not really.

I dunno if it’s that bad of a lie.... I think he genuinely doesn’t like putting the cream on and that needs to be solved more than “punished” - otherwise whenever he can he’ll just not do it 🤷🏻‍♀️

He's just not old enough to take responsibility for this, that's all. It's a chore but you just have to dial back the independence and supervise him. The lying is because he doesn't want to be punished.

He might feel self conscious that he's "different" from other kids and that's making him rebel against the cream/soap. Just take the matter out of his hands for a year or so and reinforce the routine positively.

I think I can help her because I have made every mistake in the book in this area!

My ds is 13 and has had T1 diabetes since he was 5. He knows he has to test his blood sugars before he eats then inject insulin. He also must give himself long acting insulin before bed. Do he reliably do this at the age of 13 and with 8 years worth of experience? Does he buggery!

I use to plead with him and tell him how he must do his injections or else he will damage his health blah blah blah. DS reacted by disengaging with the whole thing, not eating at school so he didn't need to inject, not testing his blood sugars and just guessing at how much insulin he needed (which is Russian roulette because insulin can easily kill). Bloody disaster.

Until one he said to me that he hated being diabetic and just wanted to forget it was there. He hated how I would critique him and it made his feel like his body wasn't his own. He was very angry with me and I could understand why.

Now I do lots of prompts throughout the day, don't react if his sugars are very high, give him lots of praise for the effort he puts in and never tell him off if he hasn't tested/injected.

Please try a softer approach op, it really worked for me and ds and I are both much happier as a result.

What @RhymesWithOrange said - my ds was so embarrassed at being different and just wanted to ignore it away.

Its really common for kids of this age to go through a lying phase, just keep emphasising how important it is to tell the truth and that even if he thinks the truth will get him in trouble (i.e., admitting he didn't use his cream) he will always be in more trouble for lying than he would have been for the original thing he should/shouldn't have been doing. He's not too old for stories such as The Boy Who Cried Wolf that can give starting points for discussing lies and consequences.

As for using the cream, it sounds like he might be viewing it negatively as it marks him as different? Instead of punishing him from not using it, could you reward him for using it? Even just something small like 20p in his moneybox.

Ok this is really useful and so positive. Thank you to everyone who has commented you have made me see that this isn't as terrible as I thought and that I was pushing too hard. I've just spoken to DH and we've agreed we will shift the evening routine so that one of us is able to supervise for the foreseeable - maybe we will readdress in 6 months or a year. I'm going to stick with this weeks punishment for lying (no treats or TV) and I've spoken to DS to emphasise that it's the lying, not the lack of cream that is the (bigger) issue.

I've read the other comments - about it being a control issue, fear of being different etc and I will address these with DS at appropriate times. I really appreciate it.

As an eczema sufferer I would say getting it is punishment enough. If it were me I would still give the responsibility to them, but with the option of them not doing it...boys are lazy...so if it were me I would just say that especially in winter it is really important or he is going to have sore skin, so if he doesn't feel like doing it, for him to give you a shout and you will come and help rather than it not get done. Then introduce rewards (i use marbles) for the days he does it himself.