Struggling with teenaged DD

[MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously]

My DD is 13 and I'm finding things very difficult with her right now. I really need some suggestions of what to do because I feel our (usually very close) relationship is being damaged. I asked her earlier to do something for me and she said she didn't want to. We've just had a long conversation via text where I told her that her behaviour was selfish and unkind and that in life you sometimes have to do things you wouldn't choose because it's nice for someone else. She doesn't get it at all. I've tried explaining that I do lots of things I wouldn't necessarily choose because they make her happy, that I love her lots and try my best to do nice things for her. I ended up telling her that this behaviour isn't the girl I raised. She's now telling me that she won't ever forget that I said that. She doesn't care that she's really upset me and can only see any situation from her own perspective.
How can I get her to see another person's point of view?
At the moment anything I say no to results in strops. She's only happy if getting all her own way or if I'm spending money on her.
I know she's 13 and the hormones are all over the place, but I love her and miss how she was and I want to get that back.
I also want to raise a child who isn't selfish. Help!

She's not your enemy unless you choose to become hers. Stop worrying about her becoming out of control or not living up to whatever you brought her up to be. You can set boundaries for behaviour but you can't require her to feel gratitude or any emotions really. Your job is to let her know she's loved, not a disappointment. She's on the brink of adulthood and needs you to let her take some of the control. Pick your battles and keep the communication open. Even by text.

It's not that I want her to feel gratitude exactly. I'm her mum and I want to do nice things for her - children should be able to take it for granted that their parents love them and want to make their lives happy. I don't think she is in any doubt that she is loved because I tell her all the time. I also tell her that I am proud of her. I would never just tell her that she is a disappointment to me because that's not true. I tried to separate the behaviour from the child iyswim. I just want her to understand that there are other people here whose wants/needs are also important. I'd like her to be sensitive to other people's feelings like she is about her own. But I can't get her to see that other point of view and I do think it's important in life.
I don't think it's unreasonable to express disappointment in her attitude. I did tell her that I loved her very much and yes, I did try to explain that her behaviour hurt my feelings and that's why I was disappointed - she hasn't been raised to only do what she wants and ignore the impact on others.
I did think that if I didn't go up she might calm down and think about why I was upset but all that happened was that she focused more on why she was upset. I also didn't want to force her to talk to me. In retrospect though, it would have been better to talk face to face.

I don't think it does get much better because we love them so much and they know it. I get sick of doing it all and have a big shout occasionally. But I notice that whilst I wanted to help my DF with anything my DS doesn't feel the same

My dd is exactly the same. I don't do big heart to hearts as my dd forgets the minute I leave the be room. For me, it's all about action. Praise or consequences. I always give dd a choice and it's up to her to choose. Firstly by banning all devices until jobs/chores/homework/reading books is done. That for me works like a dream.

DD would behave as if she had a limb missing if I took her phone! I have done it once, where she was warned about her behaviour and she carried on. She lost it for 24 hours, which I think was more hellish for us than her. Banning her phone is my very last, most drastic action and I wouldn't want to use it as a regular thing. With lockdown in particular, it's her only link to her friends. She's struggled a bit with friendships in the last year (teenage girls seem to be very fickle and mean to each other for no reason), so I'm reluctant to make her feel isolated.
I do hear a lot about how everyone else is allowed to do virtually whatever they want except for her. I have said that I don't care what other parents do, but it isn't helping me that other parents are letting their kids play in the river or walk up mountains without an adult or have sleepovers during a lockdown. DD feels deprived rather than understanding that I'm just trying to keep her safe.

What's she like with her dad? Is she the only girl?

Very similar experience with my DD13. She can be really rude and very much takes me for granted entirely. It is pretty painful getting her to do her very reasonable household chores on any sort of normal timescale. If I pull her up on it she tends to get very defensive but to be fair to her she generally apologises (and means it) when she has calmed down. It's hard going though because I feel like I have an attitudinal teenager and tantruming toddler all at once. Her older brother is a walk in the park so she feels very much like all the negativity is directed at her.

Also, I don't think you should worry about having a text conversation. It's the way they communicate, and you're much more likely to get her to meaningfully engage if you can make her comfortable.

Young people are inherently selfish, I was too!! I can understand your frustration but I wonder if you could spin it slightly to understand that it’s also a positive thing. It helps build independence and resilience. I’m sure there’s some fantastic books out there that explain this and it too shall pass (with any luck).

Thank you everyone. I do feel better about it this morning. She is the only girl. DH works a lot and so I've been the one to do most of the active parenting. He's probably more inclined to give her her own way than I am and at weekends, when he isn't working, it's more of our fun time so it's largely me who tells her to do her homework or put her laundry in the washing basket etc. DH does defer to me a lot with her so he will tell her to ask me about social arrangements or whether she can go somewhere because I've been the one here with her all the time.

I have a 13 yo and a 14 yo so I massively feel your pain. Teenagers are horrible

My friend is a psychologist she told me only secure children tend to act like this. I do think there is some truth as I was 100% compliant as terrified of my extremely violent, cruel abusive parents.

Take a little solace in that.

I have adult 2 sons, both would do things for me, but with one I can argue, then we make up straight away. My youngest will not talk, forever, won’t apologise, has never been the first to attempt to make up, it’s always me. He has a temper and feels he is always right, so most of the time we walk on eggshells. As brothers they don’t really get along, both are completely opposites in work, life and socially.

I will, thank you Valkadin.
Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences of this. I'm sorry you are suffering too.
Anyway, it's morning, so a fresh start. I will draw a line under yesterday and hopefully today will be better.

I had 3 of these! And I survived; and they have become charming young women.

She doesn't get it at all - she does, but she cannot back down and lose face.

I would suggest that you made too much of this. Maybe just say "Oh - that's a shame - it would have been a help if you had done X" - then move on. The mistake you made was to get embroiled in it - once you do that it all spirals out of control and becomes something bigger than it really is. You say things you wish you had not; and she does the same. It has spiralled into personal resentments and loss of faith in her essential goodness.

She doesn't care that she's really upset me - she does; of course she does, but she cannot let on. She is trying to move away from you and become her own person, and she is doing it in a ham-fisted way. She is preparing to move from being a child, who does as she is told, towards being an adult, who makes their own decisions. She does not know how to navigate this journey - she has never done it before. And there will be other things in her life which will make her edgy - maybe there is a boy she fancies and she does not know how to handle this; or she has fallen out with a friend; or she has seen something online that has worried her. Lots of possibilities.

I would counsel you to pick your battles. Honestly - saying that she did not do something you wanted her to do is a mere nothing. Save the arguments for the big things - drugs, inappropriate relationships, getting drunk, accepting lifts with drunk schoolmates, staying out very late etc. etc.

Go and talk to her - tell her you over-reacted - tell her you know she is great really - tell her you love her. Then move on.

There will be plenty of battles to come and she needs you to not become upset, but to be the strong adult who never loses faith in her. I let a lot of things wash by me and concentrated on the things that really matter: that they knew I loved them and that I recognised that things must change in order for them to grow up.

There are positives - watching a young girl turn into a young woman is exciting, but challenging.

Good luck with all this.

I have a 13 year old DD, and she was and is mostly a lovely child, but my god the teenage behaviour has been a shock. She can be incredibly sulky and sullen, will freeze you out, and can basically act as if you simply do not exist, even if you're standing in front of her speaking right at her. It's incredibly difficult to know how to handle it, and I think I'd rather she yelled and stamped at me. She can also be a shockingly arrogant know it all,and has developed a nasty tone of voice. From being a light hearted, sociable girl who was involved in everything, she now can barely make an effort - though lockdown hasn't helped to be fair

I pull her up on the nasty voice and some of the other behaviour, but the best way I've found to deal with it is to stay calm and unemotional and leave her to her own devices. At first I was worried about the sullen behaviour and "chased" her to find out what was wrong - was she being bullied? No, she's just a teen. The more I am concerned and try to pull her out of her shell, the more she retreats. I now leave snacks and lures outside the shell and walk away, she can come out and join back in if and when she chooses.

The more I detach from her behaviour and get on with my life rather than allow it to overshadow and dominate our home life, the quicker she comes out of a mood or strop. And it's important to keep it in perspective too. She is doing well at school, teachers think highly of her, and 80% of the time she's great. It's just that the 20% is so different from the girl I thought I knew, that it has sideswiped me. She is very different from what I was as a teenager too.
Luckily I have very good friends with older teen girls, and they advised me from the word go about the "calm and detach" method, and so far it definitely seems to be most effective, along with "keep communication lines open, but leave them alone"

You mentioned about her not putting her laundry in the basket - I used to leave this - they knew that their clothes would be washed if they were in the basket, and not if they weren't. And they had to make their own choices and take any consequences.

dont fall into the trap of thinking she doesnt care when she upsets you. Teenagers really do care and it hurts them a lot. They just can't process it or express it the way an adult would. They are very much at the mercy of all their quite intense and chageable moods through these years until they eventually learn how to deal with them.
Just be kind, firm and consistent... and id warn against being too emotive or saying things which might make them feel guilty because it can often make the situation worse. If they get it into their heads they are a bad person and everyone hates them (which teens often do) their behaviour escalates. She will just think its unfair and everyone is against her... teens can't really help being self absorbed and lacking perspective... its a gradual learning process that comes with experience and with their hormones eventually settling down.
Personally I'd avoid calling her selfish. This isn't who she is, this is a 13 year old girl and is par for the course. And she does love you and she does care. Stick to calmly explaining what she did wrong and trying not to get pulled into any type of emotive discourse.. even if she overreacts or is being unreasonable. And dont dwell on any nonsense she says to you. She doesnt mean it.
Its easier said than done i know. Teens push buttons.

I haven't even thought about her getting drunk etc! I hope all that is some 20 years away.
There's a lot of great advice here and I really do appreciate it.

@Mischance

I had 3 of these! And I survived; and they have become charming young women.

She doesn't get it at all - she does, but she cannot back down and lose face.

I would suggest that you made too much of this. Maybe just say "Oh - that's a shame - it would have been a help if you had done X" - then move on. The mistake you made was to get embroiled in it - once you do that it all spirals out of control and becomes something bigger than it really is. You say things you wish you had not; and she does the same. It has spiralled into personal resentments and loss of faith in her essential goodness.

She doesn't care that she's really upset me - she does; of course she does, but she cannot let on. She is trying to move away from you and become her own person, and she is doing it in a ham-fisted way. She is preparing to move from being a child, who does as she is told, towards being an adult, who makes their own decisions. She does not know how to navigate this journey - she has never done it before. And there will be other things in her life which will make her edgy - maybe there is a boy she fancies and she does not know how to handle this; or she has fallen out with a friend; or she has seen something online that has worried her. Lots of possibilities.

I would counsel you to pick your battles. Honestly - saying that she did not do something you wanted her to do is a mere nothing. Save the arguments for the big things - drugs, inappropriate relationships, getting drunk, accepting lifts with drunk schoolmates, staying out very late etc. etc.

Go and talk to her - tell her you over-reacted - tell her you know she is great really - tell her you love her. Then move on.

There will be plenty of battles to come and she needs you to not become upset, but to be the strong adult who never loses faith in her. I let a lot of things wash by me and concentrated on the things that really matter: that they knew I loved them and that I recognised that things must change in order for them to grow up.

There are positives - watching a young girl turn into a young woman is exciting, but challenging.

Good luck with all this.

This is an excellent post.

It really wasn't my intention to make her feel like a bad person. I just wanted to teach her, while she is young, that it's important to consider other people's feelings and that in life you sometimes have to do things you might not choose because it's helpful. I want her to feel that family is important and we all have to contribute.
But I think I probably did over think it and the conversation became heavier and more emotional than it needed to be.
I'm sure you are all right and she does care. Normally we are very close, so it throws me a bit when she starts acting like this. Her brothers were more 'go with the flow' types so this is new for me.
You've all given me lots to mull over. We are having a nice morning - had a hug and a chat.

Hooray for the hug and a chat - way to go!!!

There will be storms ahead, but you just need to avoid anything that whips them up.