Buying a puppy and avoiding puppy farms

[bloddingalong]

Can anyone help?

It seems to be a bit of a minefield given the line between reputable breeders and puppy farms seems to be even more blurred than it was way back when.

This is a family pet not a Crufts show champion. Plus I’m conscious of ethical problems even there.

So where would you point someone to for buying a puppy - any advice appreciated!

@DarcyProudman

Please don’t try Pets 4 Homes. The puppy farmers and back yard breeders are all over that site.

I’m not convinced they aren’t all over the Champdogs website to be honest.

@bloddingalong

Nor am I...

Oh puppy farmers and backyard breeders are all over EVERY website, @bloddingalong. Champdogs just reduces the odds a little by requiring health tests. Puppy buying is an horrific stress these days.

I would always go for a show breeder who health tests, to give a better (but not foolproof) chance of getting a dog with typical looks and temperament for the breed.

'Backyard breeder' is a bit of an all-encompassing term. If I were buying a pet, there are litters that are bred as one-offs or very occasional litters in family homes, from pets that are typical and have the health tests. These don't necessarily need to be discounted, but they can be difficult to weed out.

NEVER let yourself be convinced by a seller that KC registration is 'just for show dogs and we value our pets too much to register them'.

There are NO good reasons not to register a purebred litter, but there are many bad reasons. (Not least because dogs being stolen for breeding is a huge issue at the moment.)

You have to have your wits about you to be honest, one of the worst breeders I know is a registered KC breeder etc but I wouldn’t touch her puppies .

A lot of breeders do breed a couple of different types of dogs for example spaniels and labradors or pointers and Norfolk’s . It’s not necessarily a bad sign , often one will be their main breed and one more of a hobby etc .

On champ dogs you need to look at the breeder under the type of dogs so eg go to golden retriever then look at the list of breeders for that breed . Then start looking them up elsewhere and email them , you can find out a lot from how they respond to an initial enquiry, good breeders rarely have puppies available and most will ask you searching questions

It’s a bit of a worry, on the other hand P4H DO have puppies!

So Champdogs doesn't ensure non puppy farmers.
I'm in Ireland and there just a few names of breeders in Ireland, for the breeds I am interested in, on their list.

Ireland, sadly is the puppy farm capital of Europe. A few years back a government minister promised to sort it out. He's dead now and the problem remains. Locals in an area must know where the awful puppy farms are. They should alert the authorities.There should be huge fines and imprisonment for being involved.

It’s frightening how difficult it is to actually buy a dog ethically.

In the horse world you often get small time dodgy dealers advertising as if they are private sellers. I always start an enquiry by saying "I'm interested in the horse you are selling" and not being specific. You can always apply the same process by just saying puppy, not the specific breed. If they ask you which breed you need to have alert levels on high. Though as a PP said, there are some genuine people have 2 breeds.

We are getting a puppy from pets4homes, but its from an actual farm. We went and saw the working parents and 8 lovely pups. Can't wait to collect him.

There is some good breeders on Pets4Homes, I got my DDog from there 6 years ago, still in touch with breeder (she kept my girls brother back) both parents health tested etc. Call the advert and ask about tests, age of parents, number of litters and the KC name of the bitch and stud then on the KC website check their answers

Lots of Labrador pups on Pets4Homes, and sure they'll be thrilled to take £2,500+ out of your hands with no questions asked. Most not registered, so bitches probably pumping out litters at every season, and several adverts certainly not purebred Labradors either, whether they're registered or not.

I am currently dipping my toes in to buying a different breed than my usual, just as a pet, so am experiencing a bit of what novice puppy buyers go through (albeit with more experience of the pitfalls).

It is genuinely horrendous. I won't be getting a puppy in any hurry, that's for sure, I will probably be on a waiting list for years with one of the few breeders I can find in the breed who seems to actually really be trying to breed healthy dogs.

(Mind you, in my own breed I know lots of people, but 'know too much' about their dogs and health issues, and to be honest that doesn't make it any easier. My last two dogs were viewed, bought and collected from mainland Europe because I couldn't find anything suitable here.)

Battersea Dogs home ; or one of the equivalent dog rescue charities nearest to you. They are all over UK. (RSPCA and others). Look on line . There's an endless supply of homeless dogs in need of adoption, of every possible breed and crosses. Instead of lining pockets of amoral puppy farmers, you can really do some good ; and you'll get a far better , healthier dog .

A rescue charity will help you choose a suitable breed and size of dog for your circumstances; their puppies will have been properly weaned, fed, fully health checked by vets. Mature dogs will have been carefully assessed for character, temperament etc. The charity will give you endless free advice about how to rear a puppy/care for/train a dog etc.and none of it is given for commercial advantage. Cost of rescue dogs is a fraction of breeders and puppy farm rates.

 For the past 40  years ALL our dogs have been  rescue dogs from charities ,  and robust,  healthy.  None turned out to be  a sickly  dud or a bad natured  dog   and  we adored them all.

It’s not a Labrador whitney although we are happy to pay as long as this ensures a healthy dog from a happy mum.

Read their guidance, it's quite comprehensive. Check the background of all pictures carefully and ask a lot of questions and really expect to answer a lot too.

My dog came from an ad there. The woman was a one time breeder, asked me a lot of questions before she gave me her address and gave me a time slot... I made that appointment or wouldn't be considered for the pup. I met the bitch, saw a litter of 6 x 4week old pups with her, suckling. I met the rest of the family, 2 kids and her OH. We discussed the breed, what my circumstances were, gave her my address, her OH drove passed on his way to work. I went back 2 weeks later and she told me I could pay the deposit and have the pup I had chosen.

On pick up day I got all the documents, the chip etc was signed over to me, I met the dog and his owner and talked to him before I handed over the rest of the money... even got a receipt with all the details written on it.

A friend who bought a similar pup at the same time didn't check the photographs carefully. I pointed out that about 20 dogs had been sold in front of the same sideboard over the last year. She went elsewhere.

Wherever you find your pup you need to be careful.

Aaaah sorry, you mentioned Labradors up a bit, so I made the assumption.

As others have said, lots of reputable breeders will have a second breed, so that is not necessarily cause for concern.

The trouble is that it's very difficult to work out which they are.

It's also not just about 'happy to pay for a healthy puppy' - a ridiculously inflated Covid price does not suggest a reputable breeder.

Look, I really don’t want to have to keep having this conversation about rescue dogs.

We have young children. Not only does that mean that despite what is posted over the page, many rescues automatically won’t rehome to us anyway, it does mean an extra level of care needs to be taken.

We also have two cats (who DID come from battersea!)

And we work. DH works from home, I work part time, but work is work for many rescue centres.

And yes there is a particular breed we are very keen to have. We want to buy ethically but we also want to choose a puppy ourselves and raise in our family.

I know what you mean whitney but when someone has ‘Chinese crested, poodles, cavapoos and ...’ you do raise your eyebrows.

Aaaah agree entirely there.

To be honest, the amount of breeders who breed any 'designer cross' like cavapoos with their eye on anything but profit is negligible. I am sure the mythical ones that do health test are out there, but God there aren't many of them.

(Legislation has also buggered what used to be a fairly easy acid test - any kennel that was licensed should really be avoided like the plague, rather than seeing it as the good thing that advertisers would have you think. The requirement for licensing for most kennels has removed that.)

What breed are you looking for?

I recommend talking to the breed club (all breeds have them) who should be able to recommend breeders to talk to. Reputable breeders will almost definitely be involved in the breed club. Then talk to the breeders! I know some who get quite bristly about just getting emails. Prepare to be interrogated, good ones will be picky where the pups go. You will probably find you have to play a bit of a waiting game as there is no guarantee that any litters are planned, or current litters may be spoken for.

It took us a year to find our puppy, but it was worth it to find the right breeder with pups that fit our family. She's from a family of show dogs but most definitely just a pet, so don't let that put you off!

Basset hound

I will have a look - prickly breeders worry me! I remember from my horsey days having to deal with difficult horsey people!

@bloddingalong

Basset hound

I will have a look - prickly breeders worry me! I remember from my horsey days having to deal with difficult horsey people!

OK, so looking at P4H, there seem to only be four registered litters on there. None make mention of DNA testing for eye conditions or hip/elbow scoring, so in a breed that has its health issues, I wouldn't touch any of them with a bargepole.

Good to know thanks - these are the sort of pointers that are helpful at this novice stage!

@Snooper22

We are getting a puppy from pets4homes, but its from an actual farm. We went and saw the working parents and 8 lovely pups. Can't wait to collect him.

Oh Gawd. Buying a puppy from farm working dog parents, to keep as a pet, is fraught with potential problems.

Working dogs are high energy dogs bred for working characteristics, many of which are incompatible with urban family life. They need huge amounts of excercise, and stimulation. Not a good breed to leave alone in the house while everyones at work or school. If you live in the country, then you're taking on a dog that's been hard-wired to herd (chase, hunt) livestock. In a working breedline that inbuilt attraction to sheep and chasing will always be there , bad news to any farm neighbours , and you, if your bored dog goes walkabout.

    If you want a pet  collie, get one that wasn't bred  from working farm stock.

Looking at a few breeders on Champdogs, it would look as if the breed doesn't embrace hip and elbow testing (somewhat surprisingly!).

Definitely Gonioscopy results seem to be a popular test, and others are also testing for other eye conditions.

If you look at the health results for this dog, it would also seem that as a breed they have adopted a health certification scheme, which would be well worth looking into for general health on a fairly extreme breed: www.champdogs.co.uk/dog/75751