How does an 18 year old look for a job during a 'year out' these days?

[LimitIsUp]

Dd finished her A levels and started on an Art Foundation Diploma this September (its a one year course that you do prior to a Fine Arts Degree).

Its the end of week 4 and she has had an epiphany that its not for her, she has concluded that she doesn't want to do a Fine Art degree in future and in fact she wants breathing space to think really carefully about her future degree / qualification / job pathway. So, she's quitting (I think its the right choice - at least she has worked out what she doesn't want to do)

While she is taking breathing space and deciding what she wants to do in the longer term, in the mean time she needs to concentrate on learning to be an adult (her words - she isn't very independent right now), finding some paid work etc

The work she does this year is temporary and won't form the basis of her career plans so she is happy to do the traditional entry level stuff - e.g. casual Christmas staff at the Post office parcel sorting depot/ stack shelves in Tesco / etc etc

Where do people look for jobs these days? As an old gimmer when I was her age in late eighties / early 1990's we looked in the newspapers and in the job centre! Pretty sure that's not how it is done now. Where do people look now? (yes, I am that out of touch)

I can understand to a point you not knowing how job searching works now, but you seem to be asking because she doesn't know?! Because she seem to lack the motivation, initiative and determination to do it off her own back!

To be honest I find that quite shocking!

She's 18 has she NEVER had a paid outside the home job?!

Not even in the holidays?

If not why not?

And if not, then to be honest I think she's going to find it extremely hard finding work.

My dd is 19 and after some time out working full time she is now back studying, she has 2 part time jobs at the moment which even with a pretty good cv and good refs for her age she took some time to find.

She's been working since she was 14 part time, left school at 16 and worked full time (long story she got put off education for a while) and has now decided to return to studying.

On the job websites like indeed etc there's usually a counter which tells you how many have applied for each vacancy, and that's only the people who've applied directly via that site and often the same job is advertised in multiple places - different sites/apps, newspapers, with agencies, on the companies' own websites (especially if it's a large company like Tesco or next)

And even so the number of applicants per vacancy, per site dd was telling me it's often close to 1000 applicants on the first day they're advertised. I've been browsing for her too and that's what I'm seeing too.

Add in the huge numbers of redundancies due to covid, more coming due to Brexit, I'd be advising her to consider changing course rather than just quitting without a job to go to.

50 applications is actually quite a low number, she may well need to do 100's before she even gets an interview.

Unless of course you can afford to support her?

Am I right in understanding she was privately educated throughout school and has never worked?

In all honesty if that's the case I can't see an employer who wants a "grafter" hiring someone who's never worked a day in their lives and has just quit college, not even a month into the course, essentially on a whim having chosen their course poorly!

Plus there are more youngsters than usual due to the current effects of the pandemic on education meaning many are opting to take 2020/2021 "off" until things are more settled.

But many of these youngsters will have more experience and better cv's than your dd

Warehouse near me decided upon adding 6 temp vacancies, for over Xmas, before they even got around to advertising, purely word of mouth from current employees telling family and friends they had thousands of applications. Those jobs were filled without any advertising even being necessary.

Most of the Christmas temp work vacancies will be filled by now too.

She'll need to be really on the ball and checking several times a day.

She has severe anxiety and believe me it was enough of a challenge for her just to complete her GCSEs and A levels, so fuck right off with your judgement Graphista.

@Graphista Do you feel better for that outpouring- what an unpleasant, unnecessary post. I think your daughter is making a good decision OP and wish her all the best in finding a job.

Thanks Alice.

It's upsetting because dd would love to be a super confident, self assured 'got it together' person rather than struggling with mental health challenges and limited by self doubt.

Part of this purpose for this year is for her to work on herself (with her counsellor) and build her self esteem & independence

It's really hard! I have ds (18) doing an art Portfolio course this year, planning to go on to do a design degree at Art School next year. He's applied for 20-30 jobs a week since lockdown started to ease and still has nothing. Also have dd2 (16) at college doing an HND in beauty therapies and she's similar. Dd1 (20) got a job in a bar/restaurant really easily 2 years ago, the job market has just died, especially for teens with no experience.

Just didn't want you to think you were alone!

Oh and Dd1 is actually at the local (Glasgow) Art School as well as working. Things just change so quickly!

Thanks

Yes we know it may require dogged persistence but she has decided that if she can't find paid work then she will do voluntary work, build her portfolio (won't do a fine art degree in a year or so but might well do Graphics), there are lots of constructive things she can do. Worse case scenario she can work for dh - but would prefer not

We do live near to a Theme Park which is currently recruiting and dd is putting in an application tomorrow

As well as the prince’s trust I’d have a look as well and see if there are any local organisations offering support with employment and confidence building. Have a google of your area name plus youth employment support (or similar terms) and see what it throws up.

There is also some advice on the National careers service website, and www.myworldofwork.co.uk/ is good for the basics of finding a job.

This is just my experience, but I find jobs advertised on the websites of large chain stores and supermarkets etc. aren't really much 'bang for your buck', so to speak. It's been a few years since I've applied for one, but from memory they were all applications that took hours and hours to complete and involved things like personality quizzes and virtual roleplays, and didn't accept CVs, so each one would have to be done from scratch.

It might be worth just Googling accountants, solicitors, etc.(it doesn't have to be these sorts of businesses - whatever would suit your daughter) in your area, and checking their website to see if any jobs are available, or even just sending out covering letters and CVs to them to see if anything comes of it. The offices I've worked in have often had jobs available that weren't advertised on places like Indeed (though that's another good place to look) so would only be found by people who came directly to the website. It's a bit time consuming but in my opinion less painful than the stupid application forms on the websites of big companies!

By the way, despite what past posters have said it's completely normal for 18 years olds to not have experience of paid work - I'd say about half of my friends at that age had a part time job, half didn't. It can be bloody hard to get part time work that fits around school, particularly if you live in a part of the country without much work to go around, and I know that I spent years applying for jobs at that age to no avail. For what it's worth, those of us who didn't have part time jobs alongside school are no worse off than those who did!

Wow!

For starters I commented on what op posted based on the info available at the time

Secondly my own dd also has anxiety and a physical disability so I absolutely understand that such things can add to difficulties in applying for and gaining work.

For another thing while I absolutely sympathise and understand if there are health issues at play, that doesn't make much of what I said untrue or even unfair to say, the op seems to lack and admits to lacking knowledge of how job hunting, especially for this age group, works these days, unfair while it is (and I have severe mh issues myself so I do understand) the reality is it's an incredibly competitive market at the moment and an applicant without a proven work history will find it much harder to find work at this time

I think it's actually cruel to give the op a sense that things will be easier than they are likely to be for her dd to find work. Far better they both have a realistic and current understanding of how things are.

If anything you'll find mh issues very much work against her, I was dx almost 15 years ago and even though legally they're not supposed to I'm afraid most employers do (albeit subtly enough to not get done for it) discriminate against those of us with mental illness.

Employers and charities who openly are supportive of those with mh issues are massively overwhelmed and have been to my knowledge for the last 5-10 years.

On the plus side if/when the dd does find a job in all likelihood it will help her to build her confidence tremendously.

My own dd was extremely shy and anxious around social interactions in particular when she got her first job working on the counter of a local takeaway. HAVING to interact with strangers, speak to them and converse with them really was so difficult for her at first but gradually she gained in confidence.

It's still the part of any job she least enjoys but she can "fake it" well enough now, and in subtle ways it has really been good for her.

I didn't wish to upset or offend the op but merely sought to ensure she had a realistic idea of how hard it is for everyone just now and is likely to be for her dd who doesn't currently have a proven work history.

Fair or not that IS a disadvantage and the vast majority of employers when considering applicants WILL choose those with a proven work history over those with none.

I've also in the past been in the position of hiring and firing and quite honestly even then (around 20 years ago and not in the midst of a recession) candidates with experience were preferred over those without.

That's not being "judgmental" that's being realistic!

"Because she seem to lack the motivation, initiative and determination to do it off her own back!

To be honest I find that quite shocking!

"She's 18 has she NEVER had a paid outside the home job?!

Not even in the holidays?

If not why not? "

Don't gaslight me Graphista - the above was the judgemental bit which was unhelpful and unneeded (and rude)

I have no difficulty with someone pointing out that it will be difficult to secure work, but inferring that my dd is lacking in motivation, initiative and determination, together with the exclamation of how utterly shocking it is that she has never had a holiday job - that's offensive

Actually I am spoilt for choice for offensive bits in your post, here's another unwarranted 'opinion' which you can shove where the sun doesn't shine:

"hiring someone who's never worked a day in their lives and has just quit college, not even a month into the course, essentially on a whim having chosen their course poorly! "

Good luck! There's so much competition at the moment. My daughter (20) is in the middle of her fine art degree but has been running groups and has applied for business loan to get art group more established ( a sort of after school club). She's also developed some online classes for the kids. There's opportunities out there if you are willing or she can make her own opportunities.

There are Facebook groups are set up to offer jobs. I've seen a few proactive young people listing their skills and actively seeking work which has always gone from well and there have been offers made to them. Do encourage her to do this herself though, the ones where parents ask have gone down much less well.

OP, when I walked through our city centre yesterday there were a fair few shops advertising for staff, despite us being in a local lockdown. The paper ad in the shop window still seems to be a thing.

I am honestly deeply offended at the unfounded accusation of gaslighting.

I posted based on what you had written

in the mean time she needs to concentrate on learning to be an adult (her words - she isn't very independent right now no explanation at this point as to why, led me to thinking there was a lack of motivation etc

I will apologise for having missed/misunderstood what you meant by your comment

She has anxiety and just needs to get off the qualification train

As I didn’t consider that could have meant a diagnosed and serious issue for her, you didn’t make that clear and so many now say that when they simply mean lacking confidence, being very shy etc but I should have been more thoughtful there.

Your own comments throughout which illustrated your own, admitted, lack of knowledge as to job hunting avenues and challenges for all at the moment, genuinely concerned me as I felt you had a poor understanding of just how bad it is “out there” at the moment. I’m 48 and I don’t think in my entire adulthood I’ve ever seen it this bad! Last time I remember it being this bad was mid Thatcherism when the mines and factories were all being shut down.

Something which is true for several groups who are finding themselves suddenly thrown into job hunting now, long after they last did when the economy and how jobs are advertised etc was very different, it’s so tough right now.

Depending on where her interests lie in terms of artistic/graphic design job options, one area I do know of which may interest her (but can often be a case of “who you know” unfortunately, but for all I know you do know someone in this area, if so it could be a good idea to get in touch and let them know she's looking) unless you’re well located for commuting to a big city, is within civil engineering and ship design industries.

I know sounds weird!

They have massive technical drawing and graphic design and associated depts which are little known about as it’s the engineers themselves who are more “customer facing” but that’s why it might be a good fit. It is quite niche.

My cousin does this, he is extremely shy and has a severe stutter unfortunately, so really lacks confidence for customer facing roles. But he’s also excellent at art which it sounds like your dd is? Some require some qualifications but some offer apprenticeships (this is what cousin chose to do) or employ sort of support workers? Not sure what they’re called, not qualified graphic designers but people with some experience and school based qualifications who don’t do the base drawing but sort of “smarten up” the final drawing for presentations or turn them into illustrations for project brochures etc (so they don’t need to be technically perfect) hard to explain but might be something worth investigating.

There are also for lack of a better description admin/archivist type support roles who maintain the company’s “library” of drawings, basically make sure the drawings are stored correctly and where they’re stored is accurately recorded on databases etc

Cousins girlfriend (met at work) does this.

The people working in these roles are very much “back office” and not only not customer facing but also don’t have to talk loads to other colleagues, mostly working quite independently, which may suit her.

What surprised me was the older companies apparently keep pretty much all their final design drawings and these can go back 100’s of years, which I though was fascinating.

Anyway, just another option to look into that might not occur to or be of interest to many others.

An interesting suggestion re civil engineering and shipbuilding Graphista - thank you for that, I will suggest she looks into this as a possibility

I agree Ceecee - she needs to do the proactive putting herself out there rather than mum doing it for her, and she totally gets this. I'll just be back room support / advice.

Whilst seeking some paid employment she is also intending to offer her art and also her more commercial graphic design skills to folk who may be interested, to produce work for them at low or no cost - to build her portfolio and get herself 'out there'. One of her final year A level graphics projects involved designing a CD / album cover. After posting this on her Art Instagram she had someone contact her to ask if she would produce something for him... so it looks like she could be kept busy and productive

A good reminder Hellodunning not to discount the traditional job opportunity routes - she'll keep her eyes open

I never knew that existed until my cousin got into it.

Re art work for other people/businesses - I have a few friends who run cake making businesses, one started off in her own home and now has 3 shops, they have the skills but not the time to sort their own design advertising and because they're generally good at art themselves they can have quite high standards but not much money to spare on advertising - might be another area worth looking into. To be clear not so much those who are still at the stage of working from home but the ones who are trying to expand and "go professional"

Hi op, just an off-track suggestion but if your dd might want to go into graphics, or engineering/architecture type options, has she thought of continuing with the Art foundation course anyway - could be good preparation and may even help her decide what she'd like to do? (In a way it already has of course - she now knows she doesn't want to do fine art.) Foundation students do sometimes go through several 'iterations' as to what they want to do next!

As for work suggestions, not much to add there, but if the job search gets demoralising do keep reassuring her that it's nothing personal - there are just so many applicants at the moment. And this is not how the labour market will always be (we hope!).

Maybe consider an apprenticeship route. Applications normally open now for next Septembers intake.

I will ask her if she might consider sticking with it whilst simultaneously finding some part time work, but tbh it's pretty unsatisfactory. A course that should have involved plenty of face to face teaching with studio days 5 days per week from 9-4, is now 1 studio day per week and 2 days zoom. She finds it hard to engage with the course like that. The workload is also quite high so she could get bogged down with this, not allowing her the space to think / reflect/ take stock and proactively work on some of her challenges (related to her mental health)

I have to say I partly agree with Graphista. It's really bad out there. I'd be encouraging mine to stay in education, online or not.

And I don't think walking around giving out cvs is sensible in this climate as other pps have said.

Good luck!

Agree with HelloDunning, I've seen quite a few old school ads in shop windows recently. And sainsburys near me had one in store.
If you/she doesnt need to earn money there may be charitable groups looking after vulnerable people who are shielding, like doing shopping or picking up prescriptions.
Near me there are quite a few warehouse jobs advertised, but bear in mind a lot are unsociable hours.

she is also intending to offer her art and also her more commercial graphic design skills to folk who may be interested, to produce work for them at low or no cost - to build her portfolio and get herself 'out there'

Sorry, I missed this. Then she needs to continue with her course!