Can anyone help troubleshoot my 3 yo?

[User24689]

Really going through the mill with my just turned 3 year old and feel like I must be doing something really wrong. So in desperate need of the collective experience of MN to help me parent my way through this rather than just getting angry/ stressed which never helps.

1. My 3 year old will not listen. Example morning dialogue in our house: "DS, come and get your shoes on please... DS, can you please come and get your shoes on?... DS. Listen to mummy... Please come and get your shoes on... OK, I'm going to count to 3 and you need to come and get your shoes on or you will need to sit on the mat by the door (our version of timeout). 1, 2..." Shoes go on.

This is for every single instruction, all day long. My 5 year old is not much better but can at least be reasoned with. I say everything at least 5 times and then end with a threat. There isn't often outright defiance, just purposely ignoring me. I think it's more annoying than being told no.

I massively praise the times he listens first time, though it is a vanishingly rare occurrence. Have tried star charts etc but he doesn't really make the connection.

1. Transitions. I have started to dread taking him to visit friends because it loses his shit when it is time to leave. Always give a warning of "last play". He will usually not even acknowledge this warning. He will then say no when it is time to leave. Often leave with him screaming, carrying shoes plus him as he has refused to put them on.

1. Random refusal to do things, particularly when in a rush. Most common one is getting in the car. He will appear to co-operate until last moment, usually when I am stressed and against the clock to take DD to school. He will then sit in footwell and refuse to get into car seat. Nothing I can do as he needs to get in, can't leave him behind, can't wait for him. I often end up begging him to just do as he is told and get in seat. Often he will then get in but be kneeling or flopped across it on his tummy so I'm standing there, often in the rain saying "on your bottom DS. Please turn around and sit in your seat. Now, DS, please. Please sit down!" And yes, I do often end up shouting as by this point stress levels through the roof. We then have exactly the same again after drop off, getting him back in the car.

1. Won't hold my hand. Every time we walk anywhere that requires hand holding eg next to a road, it is not really hand holding but me holding his hand really tightly while it slowly is pulled from mine, his entire body leaning backwards while he walks to try and get his hand out of mine. He will often just refuse to walk if hand holding is required so lots of our walks take an insane amount of time because we have to stop to sit him on the pavement and wait for compliance.

Pretty much all of this behaviour has arrived in the last month, since turning 3. Although he sounds like an absolute nightmare above, he is an otherwise lovely boy. Very affectionate and loving. But lately he is just miserable/ angry/ defiant. Nothing in life has really changed. He is apparently an angel at Preschool.

I feel it is all some sort of need for control. I do worry about his inability to tune into me and his attention/ focus is terrible.

Anyone got any ideas about what might underpin all this or how i should handle it?

Any wisdom welcome!

He’s 3! This is all perfectly normal behaviour...pick your battles

Normal

When they are engrossed in something they really can’t hear you. If you go over & involve yourself in what they are doing (is the red car the fastest? or Has Teddy hurt her paw?) then ask for what you need it works better. Also mountain to Muhammad - if you want shoes on take them to him
Lots of playful parenting stuff is brilliant at this age so asking if they want to float in a bubble to leave the playpark etc

Have you come across the book ‘How to talk so little kids will listen’? I found, and find, it quite helpful.

Re the shoes, the book would say something like ‘describe what You see, so ‘I can see some feet that are not ready to go out’. Alternatively just using one word ‘shoes’. It takes a while to get into the habit, but it does seem to work.

Re the car seat, you could try describing again ‘if you do not get in your seat now, DD will be late for school and she will be sad. If we are late for school we won’t have time to [insert fun thing].’ ‘Car seats keep us safe’.
I would also try ‘it’s time to get in your seat now DS’ then start counting backwards from 5. Counting backwards from 5 seemed to work for a lot of things for us, I never got beyond 2 or 3. Just as well as no idea what would happen at 0.

Re the messing around in the street, at 3, he is small enough to be carried, back to you, one arm holding under his knees so he can’t kick you if he is likely to try. Tell him every time it is dangerous to mess around near a road. After a minute ask if he is ready to walk again like a big boy. I would also threaten with putting him back in a pushchair ‘like a little baby’ if he won’t behave.

It will get better!

I have a 3.5 year old and a 2 year old.

First rule of toddlers - it's always a phase. Some of the phases are excruciatingly difficult, but they always end eventually.

Specifically relating to your points

1. That's normal. Sounds like you have already cracked it if they come at 1,2... they are pushing boundaries and testing how far you can go before you get mad. Normal normal normal. Just make sure that if you ever get to 3 (or 5, or 10 or whatever number you judge is likely to get compliance) that you follow through on the consequences, even if it's not getting to take a toy in the car etc.

1. You have two options here. Either grin and bear it or bribes. I prefer a combination of the two. The key is not to pussyfoot about either way. 'Time to go there's a surprise in the car if you come nicely' if that doesn't work a swift fireman's lift and a cheery bye to the host. Either way they get a hobnob once in the car, either as a prize for being good or to stop the screaming.

1. I refer you to point 1 'boundary pushing' and my solution in point 2 'bribes'.

1. See 1, 2, and 3. Also introduce games and competition - 'I bet you can't hold mummy's hand for the next 100 steps, if you can you get a hobnob when we get to the car'.

sorry I have no ideas but you've just described my DS2 (almost 3). The stubbornness has got worse since he started preschool, the slow shuffle on the school run drives me nuts and I tend to rugby ball him a lot just to get to places. My older 2 were similar and they've got better with time. Bribery works, sometimes...

Omg I could have written this. I have a 3 year old DS and everything is a battle. We go through every scenario you describe. It’s SO stressful.

I swear he smells the desperation on me each time as I cheerily put him in the car, hoping just this one time he won’t twist a full 180 once he makes contact with the seat 😩

Same as you, DS is gorgeous, funny, kind, a good boy really. I think this is just boundary pushing.

I use threats when I have to :( like it will put your marvel figures away for a full day if you don’t get in the car. Sometimes works...

Oh yes bribes are good too. ‘I have a surprise for you if..,’

Mine is often just a small bag of buttons or haribos :)

Must be a faulty batch as my 3 year old is the same. Let me know when you fix it, otherwise I might just take mine back to the shop...

You've had some really good advice already so I mostly just want to send and say you're doing great and you're doing nothing wrong. Our DD was like this. She reduced DH to tears on occasion in frustration. He was SAHD and he said he used to assume 20 mins to get shoes on. The two things I found worked were when I needed something doing I started on the floor with them, engage attention first then request (with play, bribery or if necessary pick up and carry but ideally not as they're quite big at 3 aren't they). I still need to do this getting in the floor bit with DS1 who is in year 4! Secondly, I gave two options so do you want to put coat or shoes on first today? Do you want to hold your toy whilst I buckle you up or shall we put it here? Somehow the choice short circuited a lot of the issues. Of course, this worked better for me than DH because she was much more interested in testing him...

Races and bribes. My dd always wanted to be the winner

You guys are all amazing. Thank you. Some brilliant tips I will put into action! Also like with anything, just really reassuring to hear it is all normal. I remember my DD being hard work at 3 but I also had a baby and was knackered and think I have suppressed the memories of what it was actually like

I visited a friend today who has a girl a few months younger who has her own toddler moments but does do as she's told on the first ask and when I was lamenting these problems friend was wide eyed and v sympathetic but got no real solidarity as her DD never does anything like this so I started to panic I might in fact be raising a monster.

I love the playful parenting idea, like leaving the park in a bubble, genuinely. I think my problem is that when I'm tired (he is also back in a phase of waking in the night...) And stressed I can't find my fun side. I think I need to try harder, I'm sure it would help.

Thank you all, and solidarity to you fellow parents of 3 year Olds.

It's just the age don't worry mines the same . Thought someone had exchanged my daughter but no it's just the age.

I have no advice but just wanted to say I could have written your post word for word about my soon to be 3 year old OP.

He's adorable and cooperative plenty but most days are exhausting with a constant string of negotiations from wake up to bedtime.

Someone else mentioned the how to talk so kids listen book. We had the little kids version at that age and it was miraculous. Completely turned things around. The first suggestion it makes is to acknowledge how they are feeling and I find that it almost always works even now. So when they don’t want to go home, saying something like, ‘I know it’s sad when you have to stop doing something fun to go home. I wish we could stay longer too. Perhaps we’ll try and come back next week because we all had such a good time’. It seems to make them feel heard and diffuses the situation.

www.amazon.co.uk/Talk-Little-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/184812614X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=how+to+talk+so+kids+will+listen+book&sprefix=how+to+talk&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1601934914&sr=8-1

It is so hard when you are tired - that’s when they break you
When I was too tired to think of bubbles/describing the dragon you are going to fly on etc etc (although it gets easier with practice) I used to do crazy opera type singing requests (NOT in front of other people!) because it got my want to shout in frustration noise out & the kids thought it was hilarious

Oh also I always had a pot of bubbles in my bag - best way to move kids on outside

I used to do crazy opera type singing requests (NOT in front of other people!) because it got my want to shout in frustration noise out & the kids thought it was hilarious

The 2 year old has a really annoying high pitched whinge. I end up going full on Queen of the Night aria in time with her when she starts. Doesn't work at all but it makes me feel like they aren't getting one over on me.

I can't remember where I first heard this phrase but it has been ingrained in my brain for 8 years - silent physical prompting (SPP).
It probably has some psychology behind it but what made it helpful for me is that it worked as a time out for ME too.
Instead of losing my shit at tiny DS as I asked him to put on his coat, socks, put the book down for the millionth fucking time I would be completely silent and gently guide him & help him to do what I needed - literally steer him to the door & feed his arms into his coat whilst he was happily chuntering on about lego. He had 3 or 4 chances to do it independently, with countdown, but before I spontaneously combusted I would then implement SPP which calmed ME down, got shit done & kept him happy, preventing us all falling into a catastrophic sweary downward behaviour spiral.
He is 9 now, I still have to fall back on SPP on some occasions.

Omg thank god I've found this thread. My lo was an amazing 2 year old and I was so smug thinking no tantrums, as we've got closer to 3 jesus christ it's like a tiny defiant demon has been unleashed!!! Every single thing is a battle. Getting dressed, brushing teeth, wiping face, getting shoes on, getting in the car, getting back out the car, walking nicely, etc etc. Bloody nightmare

The diagnosis is that your son is three.

In 18 mths or so the issue will resolve of its own accord provided treated with warmth, understanding yet firmness in the interim.

... never forget how hard it is to be a little three old. What a lot of frustration and rage and disappointment they are continually having to manage with their immature emotional emotional intelligence. They need help with it rather than punishment or anger (though they do need firmness!)

Hard I know when they're driving you crazy 😀

Perfectly normal
My DS is the same but is 7..... 🙄

I did a lot of "When- then" at that stage. "When you put on your shoes, then we'll go the park". Or choices, "Walk or buggy" no carrying. I also had to rugby ball DD on several occasions.

It's a horrible stage, you have my utmost sympathy.

I’m so happy you’ve written this . I thought I’d escaped this but my 3 year old has started with it. It’s like living in opposite land at the minute!

I have a 3.5y dd I would happily trade for a cat. Pleased to hear this nightmare will end. Will hold on to hope.

Solidarity, OP, solidarity

I'd offer to swap you my DS2... but he's just as bad.