Vaccine roll out news this morning

[outofthemoon]

Quite shocking. Only half the population listed. Over 80s before NHS staff. Nothing for under 50s. No mention of teachers, bus drivers... Entire focus on very elderly.
So all this suffering, destruction of economy and young people's futures has been to protect the boomer generation and those even older?

And why are NHS staff and bus drivers among the biggest spreaders on your list?

It wasn’t my list and they’re on it because of the numbers of people they come into contact with in their work. NHS staff also because of who they are coming into contact with.

Sorry, it was my list.

I don't think I particularly want the vaccine anyway. For starters it's been rushed at the rate of knots.
If they're testing it on those likely to die first then so be it. I do think NHS and those in public service need it as well, but let's not forget, these things cost a hell of a lot of money, and we as a country don't have a tiny amount of money right now. Hopefully if we get those who need it most the vaccine, we can all stop living in a perpetual state of boredom and then, presuming there is any business left in the world, we can get some cash in the public purse for the rest of us to have it.

If they use this vaccine to immunise a whole generation of teachers currently in service and somewhere down the line the side effects become evident, we risk losing an entire sector.

Under 50s are on there if they are high risk or moderate risk. So age 36 high risk, I'm on there

A cv 19 60% efficient in trials of much younger people will hardly protect them at all.

Until the clinical trial data by age cohort is in this is speculation. Some vaccines will work better than others for the elderly and they will also test higher doses for them, as they do for influenza.

The elderly can clearly spread the disease to younger people, so it is in everyone's interest to get them vaccinated.

Does seem daft that my low risk elderly parents who didn't have to shield and are out and about would be offered it before me (still shielding)

LadyoftheManners

Here in the north it's much worse than a state of boredom. My local market town is now 2/3rds boarded up, the streets are full of kids sent away from school because year groups are isolating. Thriving business have closed, with all the misery that goes with it.
Poverty also kills.
Yes, of course, we are supposed to be a civilised society, the vulnerable should be protected. But there will be no money left to protect them with at this rate.
I think, for instance, they should start vaccinating at over 65, and work up, not over 80 and work down. Catch the age group likely to be still out and about and interacting with children.
This is not about myself. I don't want a vaccine (especially in animal squalene is in the formula). It's about the best use of limited resources.

You sound selfish.

I really don't feel comfortable having it!
How has all the testing been fast tracked?

Long term effects won't have been discovered

Instead of reading what vaccine spokesperson said, look up the JCVI recommendations.

I agree the JCVI current recommendations and all the political messaging around the vaccine rollout has been that it will be a widespread public programme, not limited only to the over-50s.

Which is why it is a bit odd that the head of the government vaccines task force is saying that only 30m will get vaccinated and the public is ‘misguided’ to think it’ll be for the whole population. And also talking about how people might suffer some ‘freak harm’ from vaccination at a time when the government really wants to be driving forward the message that vaccines are tested and safe, especially with all the antivax conspiracy nuts around. Maybe she just explained herself really badly or something?

I kind of agreed with you until you said you don’t want a vaccine because it has animal products. So you are but happy for others to take it to get the economy back on track and all the benefits that comes with that but you can’t because it’s morally wrong? Can’t you see that if you are hoping to reap the benefits then you are just a complicit in the use of animal products?

@Jen8888

I really don't feel comfortable having it! How has all the testing been fast tracked?

Long term effects won't have been discovered

The safety bits of the testing haven’t been fast tracked. What’s been sped up is all the other stuff that usually takes years and years - applying for funding, waiting for review, trying to recruit volunteers, waiting to start manufacturing until final results are in.

Monitoring for long-term effects doesn’t really get done as part of trials because having something that blows up years down the line isn’t really a thing. If you’re going to react badly to a vaccine, you’ll most likely do it shortly after receiving the vaccine when your immune system is dealing with it. What they’d be more worried about is the small but technically possible chance of rare effects that maybe only affect one in 100,000 people, which you wouldn’t really spot in trials anyway, so what they do usually and will do here is continue their safety monitoring after the vaccine starts being used.

If they wanted to rush the trials they could have a vaccine out now, today, there’s already a lot of doses of the front runners produced. The reason that isn’t happening is because they’re going through the right processes to make sure it works and it’s safe first.

Thank you @GoldenOmber

Carycy

I do understand, I am pretty much vegan these days, but I can't impose that choice on other people.

If they wanted to rush the trials they could have a vaccine out now, today, there’s already a lot of doses of the front runners produced. The reason that isn’t happening is because they’re going through the right processes to make sure it works and it’s safe first.

Exactly correct. The leading candidates started manufacturing months ago but they're holding off because nothing would be more damaging to long-term uptake than giving it out now and having to stop later because it failed phase III trials. This is what the Russians are doing reportedly. It's quite a gamble.

It will be interesting to see how this is organised.

When is this vaccine planned to be ready to go?

No but you seem happy enough to reap the benefits as long as you can still polish your own halo.

It’s a bit odd that people are being prioritised on age and not on their risk.

It’s a little odd that if you are extreme clinically vulnerable aged 64 you have to wait until everyone older than you has been vaccinated.

Surely it should be (1) public facing NHS and care home staff (2) Extremely Clincally vulnerable (3) care home residents (4) everyone else in age order.

Or was everyone shielding whilst their 70 year old neighbours went to the garden centre mislead?

Many of the trials aren't due to finish until next year, including those already at phase 3.

www.who.int/publications/m/item/draft-landscape-of-covid-19-candidate-vaccines

I think that carehome residents and staff are fine at the top. They tend to have elderly and/or highly vulnerable residents, there have been some nasty outbreaks, and they are very much suffering from a mental health and well being hit from the increased isolation. Theynare a readily identifiable group of people, couid probably be done quite quickly, and then residents couid be visited more readily (even if some precautions stayed in place)

I'd do NHS staff, the exceptionally vulnerable and the extremely old next. Plus those with planned admissions to hospital 2 weeks before date.

Then other elderly, prisons (staff and inmates), social workers and emergency services.

Then over 65s and those who routinely receive a free flu jab

Then other vulnerable and over 60s

Then over 50s, and essentially keep going down the age ladder after that.

The spanners in the works will be
a) whether the first vaccine/s available will,be suitable for the elderly and some categories of exceptionally vulnerable
b) how many shots are needed for a full course
c) whether boosters are needed and at what interval

I'm not a anti Vaxer and never have been, but I'm not going to be the first in the queue for a rushed out vaccine im not in a danger group for.

I still dont believe we will have a mass effective vaccine any time soon either

The most shocking thing is the focus on 50 as the main cut off point.

The experts, including SAGE, have acknowledged that the age risk starts from 40 (or 45), not 50.

It's also been recently reported that the long-term disabling symptoms and potential heart damage of Long Covid seems to be particularly affecting women in their 40s.

The should really include life circumstances.

A 50 something middle-class man or woman, who lives in a spacious home in a rural village or market town is at lower risk than a 40 something (male or female), who lives in overcrowded housing in a deprived urban area.

I'm wondering what the qualifying health conditions criteria will be. Today I was told by my GP's surgery that I am not eligle for a flu jab. This is despite the fact that I have several quite severe health problems,and that I received a letter from the government and numerous texts from the surgery telling me that I should shield for 3 months,at the beginning of April when the lockdown started. Plus the fact that I've been eligible for one every year for the past 25 years! My records 'are not showing that I'm vulnerable' apparently. So where did the information that I'm vulnerable enough to be told to shield come from?! Therefore I'm not holding out much hope that I'll be offered the Covid19 vaccination.