I’m Karen at work

[CoronaCustard]

Late 40s woman in an organisation full of 20 somethings - and I’m just failing to bite my tongue when they’re WRONG.

At the point where I’m just going to refuse to do it their way any longer.

And yes, I have written multi-paragraph letters of complaint and requested to see the manager.

How does one operate smoothly as a woman of certain age and wisdom in a world which is set up to not hear you ( I always presume because my qualification is different to everyone else in the office - but also maybe because of generation divide).

I don’t want to just walk out. I like the work. And everyone would scarcely be less eye-rolly to me if I bailed at 11th hour. Though yes I am job hunting for the future. Anyone know any good openings for a prime Karen?

[lborgia]

OMG has no one heard of a metaphor, or an analogy. I understood perfectly what she was trying to convey.

OP - it sounds horrendous, and obviously I have no way of knowing whether you’re a PITA at work, but I would expect you to have some kind of note in your reviews if your manager, or anyone, had suggested that you are a lousy team member.

It really is hard being 20 years old than the average demographic, and the spot you’re in makes perfect sense to me.

I think you need to ignore the digs, continue to do your job as well as you are able, and start looking for something else. Not to move this month, but have your ear open.

Meanwhile, I may have missed it, but I would be putting together a more formalised plan to submit on how they could best use your skills. If they continue to ignore, and you continue to feel like a square peg in a round hole, you will in theory have a job opportunity in the next few months ?

good luck!

[AwaAnBileYerHeid]

"You win the award for word salad, a beautiful arrangement of words that mean nothing..."

I was trying to think how to word what I was thinking. But this fits perfectly. Sorry.

[Updownin]

Do you talk like this in real life? You are talking in unintelligible circles.
I would be screaming - "what is your point"! - at you I think.

[cdtaylornats]

We used to have one, she was a Project Manager and knew nothing about software. Having seen a computer she felt qualified to suggest things and argue about time estimates.

Eventually nobody would work with her.

[WiserOwl]

imo you've been torn down here.

Weird how unpredictable mumsnet is. sometimes you get such supportive comments but sometimes it goes the other way if the first few posters want to put you in your place.

I'm 50 though. So what would I know! ;-)

You might not be The Perfect Employee but who is, so the notion that you're 100% responsible for all of the issues is such scapegoating, ageist misogyny

[Hingeandbracket]

This thread reminds me of that Victoria Wood sketch where the character was complaining some of her colleagues who were using the toilets weren't even graduates.

[belowradar]

@LolaSmiles

belowradar
I think in this case the OP seems to be using Karen as a badge of honour, whereas her actions and attitudes really come off as being a bit of an arsehole at work who thinks highly of themselves and rubs their colleagues up the wrong way.

I will not tolerate the use of the name 'Karen' in this context until there is a male equivalent, even by women who are proud to be 'Karens'.
Even in the unenlightened bigoted 80's it was Tracy and Kevin, not just Tracy. Women-hating has really escalated since then, despite improvements in overall equality.

[Frappuccinofan]

I’m in my 20s. I don’t think all late 40s women are “Karen’s”. The meme is a specific demeanour and rude, patronising attitude, age itself isn’t really that relevant. The majority of women the same age are kind and don’t fit the stereotype.

Essentially it’s not your age, it’s you, and how you’re coming across whilst you’re raising misgivings - your tone could be smug and condescending and rubbing people the wrong way. Remember that people in their 20s may have family members your age that they love/understand/appreciate/can get along with - again it’s not your age but rather something about you personally that makes you awkward to work with.

I must say, in some of your posts you are coming across in a bad manner. No matter how smug you are, remember that you do essentially have the same job title as those half your age. So even though you’re senior in age, you’re not senior in title, so you shouldn’t act as if you’re their superior

[LolaSmiles]

WiserOwl
I think the thread would have gone a very different way if it said something like this:

My workplace specialises in Area A but they're branching out into Area B. I was appointed to work in Area B and am suitably qualified in this area but I'm finding that some of the procedures that work for Area A aren't working as well for Area B. I've had a chat with a manager/emailed a manager but so far nothing has come of it. I'm quite frustrated so could anyone advise how to get a resolution.

That would have got a range of supportive comments and advice.

Unfortunately the OP didn't say that. What she essentially said is 'I'm so much better than my colleagues, look at me I'm a bit of a Karen... I send lots of lengthy complaint emails because they don't do it my way. I have a qualification and am older so obviously my way is better. The young'uns obviously don't listen to me because of my age. Sure I'm a PITA but they're not going to get rid of me so I'm going to keep being a PITA. Why doesn't anyone listen to me?! It's probably because of my age and qualifications. It feels like I'll never fit in because I'm so brilliant and I can't see me ever being the type to be quiet and compliant.'

Attitude makes a difference to the advice given.

[ColleagueFromMars]

@Bluntness100 hit it on the head.

Honestly op. I won’t lie. You sound like you’re seriously hard work. (and that you enjoy this and see it as a strength)

Your communication style is difficult, it is patronising, unclear and full of self importance. Whilst at the same time using degrading terms like Karen. Repeatedly. Even when you’re asked not to and explained why. Demonstrating a lack of self awareness, an inability to listen and respect others views and an inability to recognise when you are wrong.

I think the source of the problem is your attitude and your communication style. I'm not saying sit down and shut up, but you don't sound like you have very good people and communication skills. Try improving those if you want to achieve.... well, whatever your goals are, because I'm still not clear on what they are

[Palavah]

@WiserOwl

imo you've been torn down here.

Weird how unpredictable mumsnet is. sometimes you get such supportive comments but sometimes it goes the other way if the first few posters want to put you in your place.

I'm 50 though. So what would I know! ;-)

You might not be The Perfect Employee but who is, so the notion that you're 100% responsible for all of the issues is such scapegoating, ageist misogyny

Where are the examples of ageism, scapegoating and misogyny, though?

[CoronaCustard]

So majority opinion:

1. I should not have used the ‘K’ word, because it is widely understood to insult women of a certain age expressing their opinions in a certain way, and hurts their feelings.
   
   
2. Expanding on what I mean is ‘word soup’
   
   
3. I should reflect more on my personal responsibility for the friction and try to be more humble and pliable
   
   
4. It’s probably for best that I leave because clearly I don’t fit in and challenging the status quo makes me a PITA.

[Northernparent68]

Be careful op, I can’t see this ending well for you

[CoronaCustard]

@Northernparent68

Because I’m calling this situation out (in an anonymous forum) as an example of a social barrier to women of a certain age being able to get their voice heard?

Because I’m using a widely known misogynist slur - which proves that I’m a misogynist - rather than that the scenario is so well known that it has its own memes? But shouldn’t be spoken about from the point of view of the middle aged woman.

[LolaSmiles]

3) I should reflect more on my personal responsibility for the friction and try to be more humble and pliable

4) It’s probably for best that I leave because clearly I don’t fit in and challenging the status quo makes me a PITA.

Sigh. You've said yourself that you're a PITA but you're so great they won't do anything about it.

Yet again it's not a case of being pliable or quiet or compliant or anything else that you try to suggest makes you one big giant victim who has to sit in a corner and never say anything.

The fact you think that not being a PITA and (as you say) a 'karen' equals being pliable and never saying anything to challenge the status quo highlights one of the likely issues: attitude.

Most people in the workplace are perfectly capable of raising issues/concerns and addressing professional issues in a way that is professional, without being arrogant and without being a PITA who fires lengthy emails off whilst moping about how nobody recognises their brilliance.

[Needcoffeecoffeecoffee]

I think you are confusing "humble and pliable" with "working well with colleagues and helping create a pleasant work atmosphere"

You obviously have an issue with the type of work you can/feel you should do and what is expected you need to find ways to discuss this with your manager. If you had clearly stated this in your op you would have had some good advice

The use of "Karen" confusing analogies and your tone of posts has prevented that advice. I imagine similar is happening in the workplace

[Needcoffeecoffeecoffee]

And none of this is the fault of your colleagues regardless of their age, experience, gender, family situation or anything else you feel you are better than them about

[Luckingfovely]

And yet again, a stunning display of being completely unable to listen to what others are saying, and a complete inability to partake in any serious self-reflection.

Instead, another passive-aggressive and sarcastic response.

Sounding lovelier with every update

[Frappuccinofan]

You’re purposely missing the point.

You’re allowed to have your voice heard - it’s the delivery that is your issue.

Even us 20 somethings are aware that you have to present yourself in a certain manner at work, including being civil where you are annoyed such as wording disagreements in a professional manner.

It probably is for the best to leave if you struggle to understand that.

[CoronaCustard]

I’m not in the office with the people I have friction with. They are ‘back office’ organiser people - and I am generally out doing the F2F stuff with the service users.

Fundamentally - I can plough through the professional challenge of this - but I do think that some of the reasons why it’s been hard to get my voice heard is underlying ageism and the sexism. That might be direct -( in the sense of the ‘K’ memes) - or it might be indirect (in the sense that I probably am harder work than my peers because I am different to them in my experience and personal circumstances).

I’m a PITA in the sense that I say what I see and say what I know.

[Legoandloldolls]

I worked for internal corporate company. I delivered there stuff, there way. Not all was in the best interest of the customer and some didnt make much sense at all.

I voiced my concerns at each point with my team lead then did the job their way. That was my job. To do as I was told and asked. Not to reinvent the wheel. Every company has a bit of this. You just do what can to change what you can and suck the rest up.

It's not your company to improve or run into the ground. But they are your team to support. Base your priorities there. I'm a biology grad, but I wasnt hired for that. I was hired to program web sites so I did as I was hired for

[Palavah]

@CoronaCustard

So majority opinion:

1) I should not have used the ‘K’ word, because it is widely understood to insult women of a certain age expressing their opinions in a certain way, and hurts their feelings.

2) Expanding on what I mean is ‘word soup’

3) I should reflect more on my personal responsibility for the friction and try to be more humble and pliable

4) It’s probably for best that I leave because clearly I don’t fit in and challenging the status quo makes me a PITA.

Noone said 2, 3 or 4

[Craddle64]

Ugh enough already with this shit. Karen is a beautiful name and its a very agist and misogynistic slur.

[Bluntness100]

Op your situation is not going to get better, because quite frankly your attitude is unpleasant. You are unable to bring people with you, to get buy in, explain your point, to listen, to compromise. You simoly enjoy talking to people like they are shit.

There is an element that comes across in your communications that you like being unpleasant and disagreeable, and the more people disdain your approach the more you want to do it ,,,even when you’ve nothing to gain from it.

the Karen thing being a prime example. You read people taking issue, so instead of stopping doing it and focusing on your work issue, you did it even more, derailing your own thread with it due to your desire to be unpleasant.

That desire to be unpleasant and difficult is fine. But do remember the only person you’re hurting is you. And your situation won’t resolve it self. Whilst all you do is get peoples backs up. Because when you’re actively trying to piss them off, exactly why would they wish to help you

The won’t snd they don’t.

[CoronaCustard]

Lots of Pp accused me of word soup @Palavah

That’s why I led the OP with the ‘K’ word.

Because everyone is in a rush, and if you try to explain in detail why the world seems set up to make fun of women of a certain age having strong opinions, then you’re either accused of being paranoid , or TL:DR.