I’m Karen at work

[CoronaCustard]

Late 40s woman in an organisation full of 20 somethings - and I’m just failing to bite my tongue when they’re WRONG.

At the point where I’m just going to refuse to do it their way any longer.

And yes, I have written multi-paragraph letters of complaint and requested to see the manager.

How does one operate smoothly as a woman of certain age and wisdom in a world which is set up to not hear you ( I always presume because my qualification is different to everyone else in the office - but also maybe because of generation divide).

I don’t want to just walk out. I like the work. And everyone would scarcely be less eye-rolly to me if I bailed at 11th hour. Though yes I am job hunting for the future. Anyone know any good openings for a prime Karen?

[Palavah]

Firstly stop with the 'Karen' stuff because you're not even using it correctly, and it's distracting from the actual problem you want help with - if you do?

So, the org has expanded its offering and recruited you as someone who has a qualification in that area whereas your colleagues have qualifications in the org's core offering. Is that right so far?

You're asked to follow the existing template for the service you provide but it was designed for the core service area, not the one you offer.

When you have asked your manager about this and suggested an adjustment what was their response?

[Mamette]

I’d set up my own Indian catering company tbh.

[jessstan2]

@Sara2000

What do you mean you're a Karen at work? I think you need to describe what's going on. Are they calling you a Karen every time you say something?

That's what I wondered. For goodness sake don't let this blooming American name-virus take hold here.

If you're not happy in your job, look for another.

[CoronaCustard]

Palava - they referred me to the other ‘Indian chef’ in the org - who said that the templates are a PITA - and the management don’t understand the first thing about ‘Indian Food’ - but that I should be careful that I do enough ‘British Food’ to not screw up the paperwork.

She was kind of my mentor to ‘sanity check’ my menus for a while - then I pivoted into a slightly different role (& she left).

This week they bounced me into a short notice ‘Indian Wedding’ - and Coronavirus vs rigid template has made everything 100 times more frustrating.

[HorsePellets]

I think you need to accept that this company is just not the right fit and find something else.

You can’t bend their mould to fit you.

Find something else.

[CoronaCustard]

needCoffee

My qualification is very minority there - though in demand from the service users (hence why they keep me despite my PITA ways).

[Needcoffeecoffeecoffee]

This week they bounced me into a short notice ‘Indian Wedding’ - and Coronavirus vs rigid template has made everything 100 times more frustrating.
But this isnt your colleagues fault and not the fault of their age
You need to look at the template and see if you can identify the kind of information you need or can report back on and merge it with the one you are being asked to use.
So you can say I can complete 4 boxes of your template and my appendix when I do my role as it sits slightly differently to the core team
I presume your organisation is using templates for reporting and they need to capture the work you are doing

[forrestgreen]

You win the award for word salad, a beautiful arrangement of words that mean nothing...

[Bluntness100]

Seriously how many times do you need to write Karen. Honestly get a grip ans stop using that ridiculous term, your middle name is irrelevant.

[Needcoffeecoffeecoffee]

And if you can't find a way to make it work you need to look for something else. All this digging your heels in and complaining about everyone and everything wont do you or anyone else any good

[CoronaCustard]

*Horse

Tbh - it’s all knocked my confidence in my ability to be a good employee.

I’m already very ‘awkward’ because I have kids & need flexibility for that.

I do the ‘job’ part very well and enjoy it - but it’s just so uncomfortable to feel like the only way I am acceptable to a corporate culture is to try to be quiet and compliant.

It feels like there’s no chance of growing in a role, when socially the deck is stacked so that I can’t be assertive without sensing the eyerolls behind my back.

[TheNavigator]

I haven't a clue what you are going on about, but find your general tone a bit patronising to your colleagues and self preening. So I am not surprised you have difficulty with working relationships. Maybe you need to work on that - or change job?

[LolaSmiles]

This is all getting jumbled and confusing.

If your gripe is how management have deployed you then that's got sod all to do with your colleagues and the fact you think you're better than them.

Either:
A) It really is a case that because of your age and qualifications nobody wants to listen to you
Or
B) You're just a moaning Minnie with a bit of arrogance as you seem oddly proud of how much a PITA you are being, saying smug that you're so qualified that they have to keep you etc.

Either way, it doesn't sound like this company is a good fit for you.

[CoronaCustard]

Lola

Why shouldn’t I be proud that my specialist qualification and excellent service user feedback makes it extremely unlikely that they’d sack me, even if I get on their nerves with being outspoken about the shortcomings of the strategy?

[courseaction]

Word salads, templates, Karens, Indian chefs and curries.
I'm completely lost. Sorry

[HorsePellets]

I think you are making more of this than you need to.

They did a bad job in the recruitment front - they got you in by telling you one thing but not backing it up, and that’s their mistake, not yours - but you are making it far, far worse by focussing on this issue about age/assertiveness/your face not fitting.

I’ll say it again: you cannot reshape that company to fit you.

Go somewhere else.

The world of recruitment is changing to fit Covid. Flexible working, and home working is becoming more and more of a thing, and people are much more able to negotiate flexibility than before even where flexibility/wfh isn’t mentioned in the ad because so many people are making those needs known because they know the market is shifting. Don’t let that keep you at a company where you do not belong.

(But I’ll be honest, if how you represent yourself here is an accurate reflection of how you come across at work, it’s not likely to be anything to do with ageism, sexism, or difficulties with wokeism amongst younger people butting up against your more experienced head: there’s a wide cross section of women here and they are all telling you that your style is very difficult, and I see their point. The way you’ve presented your points comes across as abrasive and combative and with you firmly centred as the victim, but with a lack of self-awareness about your own tone and language. That’s a problem in a work setting.)

[Nothalfaperson]

Stop using Karen. This is my name and I’m also losing patience with seeing it used in a derogatory way on a site supposed to support middle aged women. Just stop. It’s not the same when it’s a middle name at all.

As for your other posts, i don’t know if you’re good at your job or doing it right but I can tell you that your posts are very confusing. You don’t write clearly enough for me to understand what the issue is in your first few posts so if you’re communicating in the same style in reams of paras that is probably not helping. The Indian food analogy is a little more understandable although as you’ve not said your job I don’t know if it’s apt or not.

[VainAbigail]

It’s all complete jibberish.

[C8H10N4O2]

If you communicate at work as effectively as you do here I'm not surprised you perceive relationship issues.

[LolaSmiles]

Why shouldn’t I be proud that my specialist qualification and excellent service user feedback makes it extremely unlikely that they’d sack me, even if I get on their nerves with being outspoken about the shortcomings of the strategy?
Because the overall attitude in all your posts sounds like this:
I'm so much better than all my colleagues, haha I'm such a Karen (), I fire off all these complaints all the time and I'm so brilliant that they won't do anything about it. I'm very proud about being a pain in the arse at work.

But then the central part of your thread is:
'why aren't my colleagues listening to me?'

It's interesting that your first thought is to continue arguing it's because they're younger than you or you're being ignored due to your age

In most workplaces the office/company moaners don't get listened to because most of the time they're always moaning about something. If you combine that with quite an arrogant attitude (eg woe is me I don't see how my brilliant self can ever fit in within becoming quiet and compliant) then it's more likely that it's not your age or qualifications causing people to ignore your inputs, but your overall attitude.

[AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter]

@veryvery

Stop using the name Karen to describe that sort of behaviour to start with. Stop defining yourself by that pattern of behaviour.

Focus on individual challenges and offer solutions rather than criticising personalities. A course of action may be unwise or even incorrect (if there is an established process) rather than a person being wrong. Frame everything positively, say 'If you/we did this' rather than ' Don't do that' so you can be positive about solutions instead of focusing on berating mistakes.

Totally agree with this. STOP defining yourself as Karen. You arent karen just because you have an opinion over age 40 FFS. Karen is a vile misogynistic label for keeping women over a certain age in their place.

Dont buy into it, engage in it or listen to it. You have a right to offer your opinions and they are just as valuable as someone who is 20.

[Zezet]

I am baffled as to why everyone is so harsh with you.

It does seem like there are different things going on (although it is a bit hard to understand because it's vague):

• You seem to have a cultural mismatch in how you want to organise your work day, linked to different family situations (young twenty vs mum with kids?).
  
• You seem to have been recruited for a speciality that is theoretically recognised as important, but that in practice is sidelined and to which templates are applied that are not particularly useful for your speciality.
  
• However, these internal objections/structures then clash with client expectations, because the clients do expect your speciality, not the main thing your company does.
  
• All that said, when push comes to shove your organisation recognises the importance of your speciality, as recognised by them putting up with it/you being a PITA.
  
  Thoughts on this:
  *Your only leverage is in the last point. If this is not true, then there is no interest, theoretical or real, to engage with you on doing things your way, and I see very little perspective for you to get anything changed.
  
• However, I do think you have become so discouraged and annoyed with the situation that you are thinking of it in a non-constructive way. They're not wrong to be making pies. They are not wrong to have standard procedures and templates suitable for pies. They know their job, clearly, as the company understands it (if your argument is that they all don't understand their job, then clearly you are with a company so hopeless at hiring and managing that you might as well give up). They are only wrong in applying these things to you. They are wrong not because it frustrates you, but because it confuses and displeases the clients. This is the bottom line they are going to care about.
  
• So I think you need to change your mind set and your tone and approach this from a much less condescending place. You also need to focus way less on the office as a whole and way more on the people who actually call the shots on your job. You have no standing to critique their handling of your coworkings/general way of doing things and doing so will only make it harder to get your reasonable point across.
  Then, you need to sit them down and explain which particular feedbacks you are getting from the clients expecting curry and why you propose that for the curry clients only*, you will do things a different way. You will either get buy-in or you won't. Either way you'll have the information you need to have an informed decision on whether you can make this work place work for you. You need to stress you are making this point in the basis of the specific professional experience they hired you for, not as a matter of personal preference. You could perhaps get buy-in here from the other curry specialist.
  A separate* problem and conversation is how you organise your work on terms of life/work balance. Here, again, focus way less on what others are doing and way more on what would work for your employer and you.
  
• It sounds like things have been quite sour for quite a while so while I think you have a good chance of getting this through, you might need to do some work, first of reframing this in your own head (they are NOT the problem, the company is NOT doing pies wrong, your coworkers' job is NOT yours to opine on) and then of conveying to them you've understood these things.
  
  Good luck, it sounds like a difficult and frustrating situation, but one with a very good chance of being solved.

[Joeblack066]

You’re proud of being a ‘Karen’? You must be if you describe yourself this way, and can only see yourself as right and all the 20 somethings as wrong. So, you’re an opinionated homophobic transphobic racist who supports right wing activity.
Why would anyone want to support you?!

[AriettyHomily]

Goodness you sound like hard work.

[jessycake]

The problem is the management , they recruited you because of your speciality , the other staff like things done exactly as they were before . You need a meeting with your managers and perhaps a staff meeting so everyone is on the same page . They still may not like it but it has to come from above .