I’m Karen at work

[CoronaCustard]

Late 40s woman in an organisation full of 20 somethings - and I’m just failing to bite my tongue when they’re WRONG.

At the point where I’m just going to refuse to do it their way any longer.

And yes, I have written multi-paragraph letters of complaint and requested to see the manager.

How does one operate smoothly as a woman of certain age and wisdom in a world which is set up to not hear you ( I always presume because my qualification is different to everyone else in the office - but also maybe because of generation divide).

I don’t want to just walk out. I like the work. And everyone would scarcely be less eye-rolly to me if I bailed at 11th hour. Though yes I am job hunting for the future. Anyone know any good openings for a prime Karen?

[Anon00]

I’m 20 and worked closely with a woman your age over the summer. She had the exact same attitude, that because I was young and she had more life experience I simply must be wrong all the time. And to be honest that was probably true sometimes, I probably made a mistake in her eyes every single day but it was never ever anything important or anything that mattered, just little things because I’m still learning. Most probably weren’t even mistakes it was just different to the way she would choose to do it. I think she may have been somewhat intimidated because she had only done this type of job for a year and I had a few more years experience and been a supervisor pre corona so actually in some respects knew more than here. I’m happy to admit I may have less common sense though.

I’m very happy to admit when I’m wrong but I am NOT happy to be patronised and the attitude of wonderment at my sheer stupidity that she took was completely patronising, humiliating and the only thing it achieved was guaranteed I would never listen to a word she said.

Young people deserve respect in the workplace too. You have to be willing to accept that they have their own thoughts and opinions on how things should be done too and if they are different to yours it’s not necessarily wrong and they won’t accept being bossed around simply because you are older.

[Bluntness100]

Honestly op. I won’t lie. You sound like you’re seriously hard work.

They have a strategy, you’ve stated you don’t like it snd disagree with it. You make your point snd then leave it. It is their decision if they change the strategy or not.

Your communication style is difficult, it is patronising, unclear and full of self importance. Whilst at the same time using degrading terms like Karen. Repeatedly. Even when you’re asked not to and explained why. Demonstrating a lack of self awareness, an inability to listen and respect others views and an inability to recognise when you are wrong.

Overall it’s not coming across well, and if you behave like this at work I can imagine this is why you’re not listened to and it’s nothing to do with your age.

[AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]

Without Karens, there’d be no maternity pay, no paternity leave, no sick pay, no statutory holidays, no minimum wage, no child labour... the list goes on and on
Be proud to be a “Karen” and let the sheep just smugly and ignorantly reap the rewards

[Bluntness100]

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

Without Karens, there’d be no maternity pay, no paternity leave, no sick pay, no statutory holidays, no minimum wage, no child labour... the list goes on and on
Be proud to be a “Karen” and let the sheep just smugly and ignorantly reap the rewards

Wtf?

[potter5]

I chastised someone on a FB page for hitting her dog as a way of disciplining it. She told me 'oh shut up Karen'. I was
pissed off. Cheeky bitch!

[MollyButton]

My qualification is very minority there - though in demand from the service users (hence why they keep me despite my PITA ways).

If that is true - then I think you should be more "Karen" that is not mealy mouthed and conformist, but bluntly tell them what you are doing and why.
In fact you are not "Karen" enough - this is not a popularity contest. You are doing well at your appraisals, and the customers appreciate you.
One of the best women I've worked with had a reputation for bluntness (and could get away with it as she was "foreign"), everyone respected her and her opinions, and she gave her employers a great standard of work.
You need to be more forthright and to make it clear (and not in a typical "female" polite way) how things need to change or why you struggle with their paperwork that doesn't fit properly. As long as you are not breaking laws, codes of conduct and are providing high customer satisfaction there shouldn't be a problem.

[Anon00]

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

Without Karens, there’d be no maternity pay, no paternity leave, no sick pay, no statutory holidays, no minimum wage, no child labour... the list goes on and on
Be proud to be a “Karen” and let the sheep just smugly and ignorantly reap the rewards

As a young person, the term Karen doesn’t mean all middle aged woman. It’s a term given to certain personality traits. You could be a man and be a Karen or a child or anything.

[Chicchicchicchiclana]

"And yes, I have written multi-paragraph letters of complaint and requested to see the manager"

I suspect a problem here . Maybe describe your issue in one coherent sentence and your manager might be quicker to listen.

[Poulter]

Are you a person centred counsellor in an CBT focused IAPT service? It sounds like the kind of culture clash that would cause problems but you would be popular with the service users.

Using that analogy, even if it's not correct, I can understand why that would be a difficult situation as people tend to be messianic about their approach and a bit snotty about any other approach. Your approach would also not fit into the CBT paperwork structure. However, these kind of services love to justify their existence. And are subject to endless restructurings, so need to demonstrate efficacy. Hence the paperwork.

You've been brought in to provide something extra, but you won't convince anyone else that your way is better, so it's better to stop trying. You haven't been employed to train everyone else in what you do, otherwise you would have been given a supervisory role and everyone would have been told to listen to you and that you were there for that purpose.

Can you not just continue to provide the service that you do; feign interest in what the others do from time to time, and stop trying to change the world one office at a time? Ask people, including your boss, how you can better fit your way of working into the office structure, including adapting the paperwork, rather than telling everyone how to do things better. The latter will only get everyone's back up and is counterproductive.

[BessieSurtees]

@CoronaCustard

But at least part of the problem is that assertive women of a certain age are dismissed

This is the only sentence that I understand, are you purposely being vague in your posts?

[Whoateallthecheese]

Stop using the name Karen as a slur.
It's sexist and derogatory.

[AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]

Anon00

Where in my post does it show that I don’t understand that?
Did you reply to me by mistake?

[SuzieCarmichael]

So just to be clear (a bit clearer at least), the gist of it is:

• you have a specialism
  
• your company which does not specialise in this area wanted to expand its offering and hired you to do that
  
• there is only one other person with your professional background at the company
  
• the company hasn’t adapted its policies / procedures sufficiently for you to be able to deliver your specialism to clients smoothly
  
• therefore your are frustrated that clients are receiving a sub optimal service
  
• the corporate culture at your company is such that you feel nobody is listening to your expertise or recommendations for how the policies and procedures need to change in order to succeed in branching out into this specialism
  

Is that about right? If so, I have follow up questions:

• who is your line manager and were they involved in recruiting you / the decision to add your specialism to the company’s range of services?
  
• have you clearly expressed your concerns to your line manager with constructive practical suggestions for how things could be changed to improve the service quality for clients?
  
• do you have a good relationship with anyone else at a senior level who you might be able to discuss this with? Have you discussed it with them?
  

You’d honestly be better off starting a fresh thread with a much clearer statement of the situation and none of this ‘Karen’ nonsense though.

[Anon00]

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

Anon00

Where in my post does it show that I don’t understand that?
Did you reply to me by mistake?

No, surely you were meaning that the wonderful things you listed were fought for and achieved by ‘Karens’

I struggle to see how all these things exist because of people who berate people who work in customer service jobs ?

As a result I was sure you were meaning that the term Karen was for middle aged women because that’s who fought for these things.

The people who are the reason that these things exist were not Karen’s

[PegasusReturns]

If you’re this difficult to understand in the workplace it’s no wonder people find you difficult to deal with

[AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]

I mentioned neither sex nor age in my post so you’ve come to those conclusions on your own.
People fought and won those rights (men and women of all ages) by being what we would call now “problematic” or “troublesome” and complaining loudly.

[Anon00]

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

I mentioned neither sex nor age in my post so you’ve come to those conclusions on your own.
People fought and won those rights (men and women of all ages) by being what we would call now “problematic” or “troublesome” and complaining loudly.

We both agree, I’m really not trying to argue - just trying to be reassuring to those that hate the term.
But I promise that those people would not be considered Karen’s

[LookMoreCloselier]

Are you the Indian chef in the analogy? You just want to make curries as that's what your customers want but management are telling you to offer more variation? Its really hard to follow your posts. You're a woman in your late 40s who is not getting along with younger colleagues because you want to do things your own way? Is that right?

[BessieSurtees]

Do your colleagues have to second guess you as others on this thread are doing? If so it’s exhausting and frustrating. I hope your letters of complaint were more focused.

[Nellodee]

Have you considered forming your own "Indian Catering" company? It sounds as though there is a hole in the market and you have the skills to fill it.

[FirstOfficerDouglas]

Zezet - that post was brilliant. I wish all the people I worked with were as incisive and clear as that.

[Faraway20]

If you communicate like this at work I'm not suprised your colleagues give you a wide berth.

[anniegun]

If you explain the issues at work as well as you have explained them on this thread I am not surprised you are struggling. I am still trying to understand the Indian buffet analogy

[Tomatoesneedtoripen]

i think i understand.
you are not qualified to offer what they want you to offer,
so you deliver substandard offerings and not what you are an expert in?

frustrating.
times change, methods change,
can you ask for more training?

[WiserOlder]

Sounds tough, I'm 20 years older than most of the women in my work and it's not easy sometimes. The ageism is shocking but they'd be outraged quick enough by anything in the paper about millenials!

I do wish the age profile at my work was higher. But it could be the same or worse in the next job