8 year old bedtime - out of ideas

[parrotonmyshoulder]

My 8 year old is so worried about bedtime that he can be upset about it all day, asking if it’s nearly nighttime, where I’m going to be (i.e which room, I’m not out every night - or ever!), how many episodes I’m going to watch on TV, basically needing to control what I’m doing.
He’s so upset, can’t put into words what he’s scared of, just night time generally.
This isn’t new, but hasn’t always been this bad I don’t think. He’s generally anxious and needs lots of reassurance, which doesn’t always help.
We have tried gradual withdrawal, but it takes hours and hours. What usually happens is that, like tonight, we let him sleep in the living room (not the same room as our tv) and then take him up when we go to bed, which isn’t late, but isn’t what I want for him.
All day, he worries about night time. I don’t know how to help him.
Once he’s asleep, he generally sleeps all night.

My first son hated sleeping in his own room from a baby and slept in with us on a camp bed until he was 9 years old. We never did find out what bothered him, but he said when he was 9 he would sleep in his own room and he did. My second son slept fine in his bedroom. They are 28 and 24 now

Thanks. Glad to hear he sleeps without you now!
I don’t think that would help as it’s the bit between him and us going to bed that’s the problem. Once we’re in bed (room next to his) then he’s fine and sleeps.

One or both of us goes upstairs when our 7yo does (she doesn't go to bed til 9 though), we watch TV or films in our room. She struggled to go to sleep when upstairs without us (we also have a 4yo who is already asleep upstairs but that doesn't help), so just started doing it this way a few months ago and she falls asleep very easily. We also put her bedtime back so she was actually tired. Worth it for less stressful bedtime.

I know that would work. I suppose it is what I need to do to relieve the anxiety for now. Just means DH and I get no time alone at all, never get to use the decent TV, can’t even spend the evening with the dog!
I can’t really see him go through this anxiety every day though, just so I can have an hour each night doing what I want.

Id second putting a mattress or camp bed in your room. Its unusual in global terms for a child to sleep in a room alone.

How about a baby monitor?
Explain to him that you are only at the other side of the camera and can see him.
Maybe something of yours, a teddy or T-shirt that he might find as a comfort?

Hope you all have a good nights sleep soon op!

I suppose audio books, dream catchers, special cuddly toy, and night light don't help?

One of mine couldn't go to sleep alone - he'd need me with him for hours to fall asleep and still wanted to sleep lying on me at 3 years old, but audio books after reading to him (and permission to switch it back on during the night) plus a night light and dream catchers (with a bit of waffle about them catching bad thoughts, worried and bad dreams) helped. He was younger though and goes to bed cheerfully at 9 and has for years.

My eldest who always slept well went through a weird phase at 9 where she was terrified to sleep alone and wanted me - she'd been a good sleeper until then and it almost drove me over the edge as her youngest sibling had literally slept through the night for the first time aged 3 a couple of nights before she started... The dream catchers idea helped her too but essentially she just grew out of it after a few months.

You have my sympathy.

Thanks for the sympathy. And yes, I have tried all those things. Also have a good routine, with lovely cuddly story time, favourite toys (still has his baby comforter), nice bedroom that he’s happy in during the day.
He has a very anxious nature, seems to have quite obsessive, repetitive thoughts. Must just be extra bad at night. But of course that’s when the adults are exhausted (both full on and full time jobs) and patience isn’t at its best.

I will certainly think about a baby monitor.

If he's anxious all day, maybe worth a written daily schedule so he knows when everything is happening? Returning to school in a scary changed world is hard; do you think his overall anxiety is higher, and it's maybe just hooking onto bedtime? I'm just wondering whether gentle extra reassurance and opportunities to talk about worries throughout the day might gradually help...

We've also found our little sleep-worriers really loved it when we showed them photos we took of them fast asleep / left a little note on their pillow - it reassured them we were still looking after them and watching over them in the night.

I have 2 children aged 8 and 5, both have always been very difficult to get to sleep, the 5 year old has only just started sleeping in his own bed at the start of lockdown. We've got a routine and it is actually working!
They have 2 chapters of an audio book (lasts about 25mins in total) with the light off and door open. Once it has finished I come and hold their hands for 2mins and then leave. Then back every 10mins to hold hands again for another 2mins. Sounds tedious but it has really worked. They know I'm coming back and 10mins inbetween handholds gives them enough time to drop off but not too long to wait if they are having trouble falling asleep. Also listening to an audio book in the dark really calms them and helps them to slowly switch off.

Has he got any walkie talkies? Try him having one and you having one so even if you’re downstairs he can talk to you through that if he needs you?

Photos is a lovely idea - I’ll try that tonight.
We do a daily schedule on a notice board - he can’t really manage without it. But it does seem to give him even more opportunity to worry about bedtime because he can see it there all day!

This was me as a child.

My mum used to leave the door open exactly 30cm. I'd measure it. Shed check on me every 2 'mins, then 4 mins the 6 mins etc. She wouldn't come into the room but I'd see her shadow. As a child I was felt it was ok as mum would see if something was wrong.

As a grown up I now know she did this over 6 months. Checking on me every 2 mins for weeks before upping it to 4!!!! I had no idea how much hard work I'd caused her!!

Good luck

Get the book “what to do when you dread your bed” . It’s basically cbt for kids, you read it with them a chapter at a time and try the different things in it. Some of them were massively helpful for us.

My ds went from bedtime taking 3 very anxious hours to about 1/2 hour now, although we still have to sit with him while he falls asleep. There’s activities about timelines, fear, breathing, all sorts. Can’t recommend it highly enough.

Ten minutes to hand holds and walkie talkies also great, thanks.

My 8 year old falls asleep with me laying next to him. We read then I play a card game on my iPad then go on my phone while he nods off. My daughter couldn't sleep anywhere except next to me until she was 9 then she decided one night to go to sleep in her own room. I guess my son will do the same when he is ready.

My 8yo dd is exactly the same, I am so glad I'm not alone as I've tried Everything!

Like your son asks how long I will be, absolutely will not sleep unless I am up stairs, it's very draining and as I've literally tried everything I can offer any advice, so just posting for solidarity.

Thanks for all the posts. I have ordered the book suggested above. We have the ‘worry too much’ book which is similar. Does help a bit with his anxiety. Sometimes I’m just overwhelmed by it all though and don’t have the energy to get it right.

@parrotonmyshoulder

I will certainly think about a baby monitor.

Maybe you could rename it so it isn't a 'baby monitor'. Something more grown up.

No doubt it would be some sort of superhero/ spy equipment.

I think a lot of them go through this at one time or another. I found saying that 'I just need to pop downstairs to put some washing in, I'll be back in a bit' (feed the dog/do the dishes/whatever) worked, as long as I wasn't too quiet - the 'busy' sounds seemed to reassure them.

I vaguely remember a period like this when I was a child too. I wanted my door open & to be able to hear them pottering about, I didn't like it if the house was too quiet.

I wouldn't sit with him every night myself, I found they just learnt to stay awake longer & longer...outlasting me often!!!

@parrotonmyshoulder

No doubt it would be some sort of superhero/ spy equipment.

Perfect!

My daughter was petrified about being burgled after the police visited school to do a talk 🙄. I got her a personal alarm to keep in her room. Of course she never had cause to use it but it was very reassuring for her.

Not sure if you have a pet but daughter liked to have the cat on her bed at bedtime.

Well, I decided to tell him this morning that we wouldn’t go to watch TV. He was happy all day and asleep by 7.45. So there’s my answer, for now.