Dd12 school issues, any tips or advice?

[DiddlySquatty]

Dd12 was not happy about going back to year 8, a lot of other mums I spoke to said how delighted their kids were to be back but this wasn’t the case for her. It was a big transition to year 7 which was obviously cut short, and she didn’t mind being at home in lockdown.

So we had a rocky start to term with some bedtime tears. But now I wish that was all!

She’s part of a friendship group of 4. One was her best friend from primary I’ll call her Sarah.
As far as I can work out there was a disagreement about whose idea they went with for a tech project. Dd was disappointed they didn’t ‘listen’ to her as she thought her idea was better. She made a comment about them being unlikely to win this inter school competition. They called her a pessimist. She just felt she was being realistic.
Little argument continued over whatsapp. Angry words were exchanged.
Now, a week later, it’s still going on and has escalated into a complete falling out. 2 in the group calling dd mean, giving her dirty looks, repeatedly bringing it up saying how much she hurt the feelings of one of them. Old friend Sarah trying to stay out of it but dd feels taking their side, she told dd to stop over reacting last night when it’s the others carrying it on.
Dd in tears. Feels like world has fallen apart and she has no friends. Doesn’t want to be friends with other 2 now but Sarah is in that group.
Dd has apologised but they won’t accept it, keep bringing up, keep telling other people in class how mean and annoying she is loudly in her earshot.

I know I can’t get involved. It’s just so heart breaking
She won’t go to speak to anyone at school about it.
Said she was biting her lip all yesterday trying not to cry.

I’ve said just apologise again, preferably in earshot of Sarah/others. Don’t rise to the bait. Stay calm.
She doesn’t think she’s done anything wrong and wants to stand up for herself. But we talked about how we just need it to stop and things to be civil between them.

She’s my eldest. I’m probably too invested but it’s so sad seeing her so upset when she already didn’t enjoy school but at least had a nice group of friends. Or so I thought ☹️

Any other tips or experiences gratefully received

Morning OP sorry I didn't want to read and run.. I remember my feelings of dire anxiety at school when we would all fall out and hated confrontation. The only advice I can give your daughter is to try and make a new circle of friends. These girls are obviously bitchy and having apologised they possibly see her as weak being as they're keeping on and bitching within earshot. Give her a few more weeks she'll soon find her feet. I was so nervous for my son when he started secondary he was so timid and the thought of him getting bullied gave me nightmares. He's now in year 9 and am annoying brazen confident little sod like 'those horrible teenagers' you see but still respectful I must add. He's grown so much into a young man I can't believe I was so stressed! Hope she feels better about this soon bless her heart 💓

Thank you.
Yes definitely part of it is it bringing back my own experiences and horrible moments that have stayed with me.
So hard when they beg not to go.
You wonder if it’s the right thing to put them through it but obviously you have to face up to and deal with things.
You’re right about the new friends.
She just doesn’t want to lose ‘sarah’ and feels that the whole class is being turned against her ☹️

Have a word with her form teacher and ask them to keep an eye what is going on. These sorts of fall outs are probably quite common but it needs watching in case it escalates.

Yes I’d like to but she has begged me not to.. 🤔
But if it carries on.
I could also speak to their mums, we have a mums whatsapp group for the 4...
But I know it’s best to stay out if possible.
I see it as a form of bullying but I suspect these 2 girls feel genuinely that dd has been very unkind to them (she does have a sharp tongue) and if they have spoken to their mums that’s probably the angle they’ve heard. But she has apologised and they just won’t let it go.
My advice today was to stay calm and keep apologising if it comes up. Fingers crossed they get bored of it soon.

Your poor dd! Friendship issues are very tough at that age.

I think she has probably learnt a valuable lesson about groupwork. Her original idea for the project might well have been the better one, but maybe she didn't manage to sell it to them well enough, and once the group had made its decision, she should have accepted it graciously and done her best to make it work. Likewise, it probably wasn't helpful to make too many "realistic" comments about their chances in the competition. Even though your dd was probably right about that as well, nobody likes to be around people who are negative or discouraging. To me, it sounds like she's probably a really bright girl who can sometimes see stuff that her friends can't, but perhaps she might need to take a step back from being "right" and think instead about how she is making other people feel. Sometimes, we have to choose which battles are worth fighting and when it's better to prioritise relationships.

Having said all that, it's crap that they're still being mean to her despite her apology - assuming that her apology was sincere - and they don't sound like especially nice kids to be around. She might be better off seeking out a new group of friends to hang out with, and perhaps she could still see "Sarah" out of school? The important thing is for her to try to take some positive learning from this experience if she possibly can, as it will help her in her future friendships.

I wouldn't tell her to keep apologising either.. she's apologised several times already and nothing has changed! Tell them to stick their friendship group if they want to continue acting like primary school kids! I'd have a word with the form tutor to keep an eye on things. Again if she keeps apologising and being visibly upset they may see her as weak and wolves tend to weed out the weak and feed off it. What a horrible bunch of girls

Yes, I do agree about the apologies - once is right if you have messed up, but nobody should have to grovel.

she has apologised they need to get over themselves

And yes I would email the school about this because there is just no need for it put it clearly your daughter made a pessimistic remark and has repeatedly apologised for it there is no need for it to continue

Girls at this age need to be nicely told to build a bridge and get over it because (as I've seen with my daughter) girls hold grudges for years 🙄

It's very difficult because tbf her comment will have come across as bitterness because they didn't choose her project.
The time to do what looked like a sincere apology would have been instead of arguing over WhatsApp, have you seen what was actually said there?
But I have a dd very similar. She was bright and liked to get things right. She several times had fallings out over group work because she hated to give work in that she thought wasn't as good as she could make it. We had lots of talks about how to phrase things so they sounded good but got across her point, and how things are heard as opposed to what was actually said.
eg Your dd said "we're unlikely to win this inter school competition". They heard "your idea is rubbish".

I would have a word with school. You can ask them not to say you've contacted them-a good teacher will hear what you say, and add up what they've seen and be able to act on it giving the impression they've seen what's happening.

But do work with her about how to handle things. It took dd a very long time to realise that there were times when it was better to hand in something she wasn't totally happy with than fall out with her friends. And then they listened better to her the times she did say "wouldn't this be better?" and phrased it in such a way it made them feel that they were all being amazing rather than dd thought their stuff wasn't good enough.

Thank you everyone
You’re totally right about the original issue and I think she has learnt a hard lesson from it. And absolutely it would have come across to them she was bitter about her idea not being chosen and to be honest I think she was.
I think they are all bright girls and strong characters.

I didn’t see the chat as she’s deleted it now and left the group chat which I think is a good plan for now at least.
I do know that they all apologised on the group chat, then one girl messaged her privately to say she didn’t mean it and never wants to be friends again.
I also know that dd wrote ‘just shut up’ to this girl at some point not sure if before or after that, and we have talked about how that sounds over text and that it wasn’t nice.
They have tech again today....
I have said surprise them by getting behind the idea, or staying fairly quiet if they are still targeting her.
Will see how today goes and if it’s no better will email someone at school discreetly.

The thing is, OP, it's shit for her right now, but if you can help her top process what happened and find new strategies for dealing with people (witchend had good advice), she can turn it into a positive learning experience that will really help her in the future.

Hope that things calm down today and that the tech lesson is not too uncomfortable.

Not sure how helpful this is but I know from bitter experience that teen girl group dynamics can be toxic. Sarah probably just doesn't want to end up at the receiving end of the horribleness and so is bystanding. If it's got this far I think the seed will have been sowed that your DD is always going to be the one who is on the outside.

So no matter how difficult it is I'd encourage DD to try and find some other friends (and believe me my DD has been in this situation and that is not easy - hers was a group of about 15 that she stuck with for months and months because she didn't want to lose her best friend - who never did anything horrible to her, but equally not once stood up for her to the others either, and eventually just stopped speaking to her). DD apologised time and again (not even sure what she was apologising for) even though she was the one who had been bullied and left out.

My DD is a couple of years older than your DD and quite mature for her age so despite having gone through a horrible time I think she is in some ways happier now even though she has no friends to speak of as she's just out of all of the childish bitchiness.

And I don't think speaking to the mums is a good idea at all - they may not know what has been going on, they will get their DDs side of the story and even if they agree that their DDs are in the wrong then the girls will hold that against your DD for getting into trouble. Good to make the school aware that there are problems and your DD is unhappy - in our case the school were pretty useless but yours might be better.

Feel free to PM me - but the most important thing to remember is that your DD is going to be really upset about all of this and it will inevitably end up coming out as hostility to you - and that's a big challenge to deal with.

Hi op how did DD get on today? Hopefully it's been a better day for her x

It really depends how mean DD really was in her comments. Some things are hard to get past.

Also,whether the girls can tell or not if her apology is sincere and she really regrets it(doesn't sound like it) or she's just upset about losing Sarah/her friendships.

I believe the worst thing she said was ‘just shut up’ but I didn’t see the chat.

Thank you for asking, yesterday was much better. She was so nervous going in, and one friend ran away from her when she tried to catch up to go to English, but then when they were the class apologised and said they wanted to be friends again, and asked dd if she would apologise. She did and we had already discussed that she would again.
Then she apologised to other girl.
Then they had tech and went with a completely new idea anyway 😂
She’s not sure if the peace will last and Will keep an eye out for other friends she says.

So a pot better but I have spoken to dd about learning lessons from it.
She still doesn’t like school and is down about it but so much better than having the friendship side on top.

Thank you for your support

Diddly I am pleased the waters seemed to have calmed.

I would use this as an opportunity to talk to your DD about the importance of thinking before texting. Remind her she can come to you for advice and then it gives you a chance to talk about the issue and how to handle it. Both of my sons have done this with me.

Also never delete the messages, they can possibly be manipulated and edited on the other phone and if anything ever escalated to school staff your DD needs to have a copy.

I would remind your DD that anything she writes down can be seen and shared so always be mindful of what she texts. She always wants to seen in a good light

This was bullying behaviour and if it had continued then school do need to know so that they can stop this. Otherwise it just gives a green light to kids that they can treat people like shit and it would just continue or escalate.

Thank you 👍
Tough now how stuff at school can continue at home with social media and WhatsApp.
Gone are the days where it would stay at school or you might get the odd call on your landline 😂

Oh op, girls can be so hideous to each other. I've been through so many similar things with my dd. My advice is to not get too bogged down in it yourself. I've had days where dd has gone off to school upset and I've spent the whole day worrying myself sick, and she comes homes as if nothing's happened and I've wasted all that energy worrying. These disagreements have a habit of coming and going very quickly!

Your dd will learn from these incidents and at some point may decide to let those friendships go if it gets too much. As horrible as it is for her at the time, she's learning skills to deal with conflict and drama and learning which type of relationships aren't healthy for her.

Another tip is if she's receiving unkind WhatsApp messages to stress to her not to reply straight away. If she replies in a hostile way while she's upset she might think she could delete it, but others can screenshot it for ammunition! She could show you the messages and you could help her formulate a calm and collected reply.