How can I help dd like school again?

[Eddieatethepigeon]

I wrote a long post but it was too outing 😂 but basically dd is in year 4 now and begging me not to send her to school. She had a shitty year 2 and 3 experience but enjoyed going in for a few days a week during lockdown before summer. She used to beg to stay at home in year 3 too and has said a few times while sobbing her heart out that she wishes she could die so she won’t have to go to school anymore :(

I just don’t know how to help her. She can’t be home educated because of my health issues so i need to find a way to help her feel happier at school. She was getting some emotional support at school but COVID and the extra work school/teachers have has put that on the back burner for now I think plus they have MANY children who need the same support at that school so it’s not consistent which upsets her even more when they randomly miss her out that week or this week.

It’s extra hard because I struggled with school myself and I feel like I’m sending her to be tortured in the same way. Obviously I don’t share that fact with her though but it affects my ability to help her power through when I felt the same way.

Has anyone gone through anything similar or know of anything I can do to help her?

Is it the learning she struggles with or the social side of it? Sorry your daughter feels this way. Sadly many children feel like this at times about school. I know I did at times.

It’s the teachers. She had really nice ones in year 1 and reception but year 2 and year 3 were a lot more strict and sarcastic in comparison and she struggled with adapting to that. She tells me now that’s she’s scared to ask to use the toilet, scared that she will be told off if she makes a mistake, scared that someone else will get told off and shouted at. I believe her when she says she’s scared because she’s developed issues with using the toilet trying to avoid having to ask to go at school. We were starting to get CAHMS involved for signs of OCD and self harming but then, again, COVID happened and she’s just been left to it :(

Can she move schools?

Fresh start + some cahms/private mental health support?

Sounds like you have 3 options.

1. Change schools.
2. Go private.
3. Home educate.

Obviously no 1 is the 'easiest' but that's just luck if you have a nice friendly school nearby with spaces.

It must be heartbreaking to have your child hate school that much, I hope there's a solution.

Her teachers are doing the job because they care and are kind, in eighteen years of education and multiple schools I never met one teacher who wasn't a decent human being as far as children were concerned. Your daughters perception of teachers is skewed and appears to be allowed by your own experience. What ever other school your dd goes to there will be people who for whatever reason she may decide she doesn't like much, they will say no to some things too. She is old enough to go to the loo at down times.You would be far better encouraging her to be strong and independent regardless ...

@Bearnecessity

Her teachers are doing the job because they care and are kind, in eighteen years of education and multiple schools I never met one teacher who wasn't a decent human being as far as children were concerned.

This bit made me laugh at how one sided it is so I’ve had to ignore the rest of your reply! 😂 I’m sure there are lovely teachers (year 1 for us was a big hit) but some are awful. There are awful people in every career.

@AppleKatie

We could move her to one other school nearby but I’m just worried it’ll be out of the frying pan and into the fire as she’d be away from the friends she’s made. I’m scared of taking the risk :(

@wedidntstartthefires

2 is definitely not an option (financially) and 3 is difficult because of my own medical issues. I would do it if it made her happier and not hurt herself anymore though. I’m just concerned it would make her more sad being stuck with me all the time as I cant get her out and about much for socialising other than school.

Sorry OP not what you wanted to hear I know...you are right there are awful people everywhere....

Sounds to me like she already is in the fire.

She would be mightily unlucky if several teachers she has had in her short career are really genuinely that awful though, what do the school say when you talk to them about her anxieties?

Could you go and visit the other school and talk to the Head and explain your DD’s situation and find out what their approach would be?

I sympathise OP. My youngest DD has a crap year 3 teacher (he was sacked eventually but made no effort to control the class except yelling at them and he was caught doing snapchat in class).

Could you look into homeschool groups? Or could you afford a tutor for a certain number of hours a week then spend the rest of the time doing things that are manageable for you?

I think given all the fading they do at school the actual core teaching time in quite short.

Joining a homeschool group would give your DD the social side.

Sorry you are going through this.

I wonder if home schooling might not be ideal for your dd, you mention your own poor health, I hope its not too personal to ask, but is it poor MH?
In which case, home schooling is probably a bad idea.
Does your dd have friends? Are there any positives about school at all for her?
Does she really feel unhappy with all her current her teachers, TAs, support staff at the school?
I didn't like any teachers when I was growing up (80's/90's) but they were a small part of school life for me and I was more interested in my friends and school work. I also knew they were short-lived as you change every year. They were less strict than my parents!
Are there any signs of her having ASD?

What was it about the days she attended during lockdown that she enjoyed? How was she about using the toilet then? If Y4 was the same as those few days, how would she feel about going?

The longer your DD is out of school, the more real her anxiety about it. The anxiety she is feeling will only shrink if she has a chance to test it and survive those 'tests'. It's really bad luck that the Y2 and Y3 teachers were strict and sarcastic - has your DD been able to explain specific occasions when they were strict, or something sarcastic they said? One of my DDs will often complain that she's been 'shouted' at but once we've explored it a bit more by asking things about how much the volume went up, what other reason there might be for a volume increase, can she think of times that a shout isn't about telling off, what else was the teacher doing whilst 'shouting' etc., she usually finds a different way of looking at the situation. She's a teenager and has been catastrophising for years now but the questions are helpful prompts for redirecting her thoughts.

From what you've said about your health and your own anxiety, perhaps it would be helpful for DD and you to come up with a list of things that would make it easier for her to feel less worried about school. It could be in the form of an email to her teacher - I've taught Y4 for years and would be very happy to be given the opportunity to get things right for an anxious child as early as possible. Maybe let the teacher know that DD is very worried about getting things wrong so benefits from reassurance but also that it worries her when others are told off but it's helpful if the adult can check in with her quickly afterwards so she knows she's on track - it could be an agreed sign, a thumbs up or a code word maybe. The toilet issue is something the teacher definitely needs to know about, especially as you are already going down the route of involving CAMHS. Again, ask the teacher to work with DD to find a way she can leave the room to use the toilet without having to ask. That might be a general permission that if she leaves, it's assumed that's where she's gone or maybe she raises her hand and opens and closes her fingers repeatedly so the teacher knows she's asking to go to the loo and can just nod or say 'yes DD'. If appropriate, your DD might even have an arrangement to go to the loo on the hour, every hour so there's no signal needed, she just goes. I've done variations of all of these over the years and would encourage you to help your DD to come up with a couple of suggestions for her teacher so this aspect is made as straightforward as possible for her.

In terms of hurting herself, your DD will probably need professional help to support with this. In the mean time, she might find it helpful to wear a hairband on her wrist and ping it every time she feels like hurting herself, or having a notebook she can write/draw in to express what's going on for her just then and what's the worst that might happen if those things come true as well as looking at something like the worry tree so she can learn to identify what she can control and what she can't. The book 'overcoming your child's fears and worries' by Creswell may be a useful resource for you to work through with her.

Are you able to have a chat with the SENCO? Theres almost always a huge waiting list for CAMHS, but our was able to put us in touch with a few other options while the CAHMS referral went through.

For DS the most helpful seemed to be mentoring, his mentor did a few sessions in school so they could get to know each other, then they went our together. In his case the mentor was also training in art therapy, so they did quite a lot of that sort of thing. Mostly though it gave him a neutral person to work things through with. As he got older the conversation was mostly between the two of them, but as he was quite young initially both parents and school were part of it too.

We also found starving the anxiety gremlin a useful book to work through.

@AppleKatie
It was only one teacher who was genuinely awful but it’s almost like the damage has been done by that experience and she’s petrified they will all be the same. I do think she reads too much into what the teachers say and do because of it and I try to find the balance between reassuring her that they aren’t the same as that teacher with keeping in mind that sometimes lightning does strike twice so I don’t want to dismiss everything either. I still feel horrible about her experience with the bad teacher because I tried to reassure her a lot and probably didn’t believe her enough at first because we do get fed that type of spiel a pp spouted above, that teachers all care etc. So I try to balance taking her seriously with not automatically seeing the teacher as the devil if that makes sense?

School are trying to be supportive with her anxieties. She’s allowed to take a toy with her to cuddle if she feels sad or anxious and pre-covid she was having a weekly chat with a member of staff.

@EstherLittle

I could go and speak to the headteacher at the other school, that’s a good idea. I’ve emailed them before to see if they had spaces and they suggested coming in for a chat but then COVID and lockdown happened and then dd enjoyed going for a while so I didn’t go in the end. Maybe time to email them again and ask :(

I’ve had a little look into home school groups too and because of where we live (small town but no strong transport links) and my lack of car, we would struggle to give her the chance to go to them. I could definitely manage the educational side of it but I feel like she would miss out a lot socially.

@wedidntstartthefires

It is MH related and I am diagnosed with ASD (possibly outing myself there but ah well). I’d be able to give her the education but I think she needs to experience people who don’t struggle the way I do. She has good friends at school who always seem excited to see her. She complains about them a lot but she tells me lots of nice things about them too. She never used to worry about the teachers and got told off a lot in her earlier years for chatting and was never upset or frightened by being told off but the situation with the bad teacher has really changed her feelings about teachers in general I think. It’s almost like she’s gone from trusting them to realising that actually they aren’t all going to be kind or safe adults.

I do think there are signs of ASD as she is very similar to me at the same age. School make noises about keeping an eye on it when I’ve mentioned it but I do get the feeling they think I’m over concerned. I suppose they do see more of her at school than I do but then I remained undiagnosed until I was an adult because it’s very easy for girls to hide I think!

@SE13Mummy

She really enjoyed lockdown because it got her away from the teacher who upset her so much. She was in a bubble with her favourite TA (very strict lady but always consistent with it) and a very kind teacher. I think she felt like she was with safe adults again. The only time she started begging to not go again was when the upsetting teacher became part of the bubble and was with her again. I was really hoping that being with a new teacher for year 4 and away from that one permanently would help her find her confidence again but it’s not happening yet :(

Thank you for all the ideas in your reply! I’m definitely going to work through them to see about helping her manage her worries better. Like to give her more understanding of her worries. I love the idea of a code so she can go to the toilet without getting stressed too. I think her issues with the toilet stem so much from the fear of not being able to go that she almost wants to go too much just in case so maybe knowing she can always go would settle her with that one?

@gigglingHyena

We haven’t spoken to the SENCO yet (most of our school chat has been through the family support person) but that does sound like a good plan now that she seems to still be struggling. I haven’t heard of mentors before but that idea of a neutral person sounds really good. I feel sad for her because at home she’s stuck with me and my issues (as much as I try to hide it!) and school she has her fears and worries to deal with pretty much alone because she’s one of 30.

Thank you all so much for your replies and recommendations. I really appreciate you all taking the time to reply and help me with this. I’ve been really struggling with how to help dd and now I feel so much more hopeful!

This happened to my daughter when she started her new school in October and then again last week. Both times she was frightened due to being shouted at and has anxiety so struggles with confrontation. Both times I went straight to the school and made a complaint and told the head teacher I don't expect my daughter to be frightened in his school and unless there is bloody good reason I don't expect teachers using fear as a way of discipline!! I told him I wanted change immediately and he was amazing. Went to the teachers straight away and also helped my DD by walking her to her class and reassuring her that the teachers won't shout at her unless they do something dangerous. I wouldn't dream of leaving it and allowing this to continue. I would have moved her schools if it hadn't of been sorted out.
Have you told the head teacher you won't accept them using fear as discipline? It's really import for your DD that you are her voice in these situations.

Hi Eddie, sorry to read that your daughter is struggling with school, it is so hard to leave them there when they feel like this.

I don't know if your daughter is too old for this, but when mine was little (and worried a lot!) we had a worry bag. The idea is you get your child to mentally put their worries in the bag ( they might want to name them, they might not) and then you close the bag and take it with you because you are now minding the worries not them. I don't know if it works for everybody but you could try doing it before school and seeing if it helps?

Definitely speak to the head, if you haven't already, though I know these things are difficult when struggling with your own health. But you have to advocate for your child.
Speak to the head of the other school you have mentioned could be possible and go for a look. Covid has obviously changed a lot but I'd hope in your situation they would accommodate a visit. And if they don't its not the right school!

If you are willing to home ed for a while, it doesn't have to be permanent. You could pull her out of school and consider a return as and when you both think its the right time for her to try again. Doesn't have to be this year again or next.

If she is so unhappy "she wishes she could die" not to go back then I wouldn't even send her another day to be honest, even just while you communicate with the headteacher. Mental health and well-being is important and if you are in a position to allow her to stay away from an environment she is so unhappy in, then I would.

I know its all easy to say and harder to do though.