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North London/South London divide

184 replies

LuckyAmy1986 · 03/09/2020 15:57

I have always lived South of the river and love it, although it's true you do have to cross for a lot of the good stuff! However, colleagues who live North of the river are quite down on the South and how dull it is, how far away from everything etc etc. Do other people have a clear favourite? Is there actually a real divide? Btw, I know this is totally mindless chat, it was just on my mind!

OP posts:
BlackLambAndGreyFalcoln · 04/09/2020 09:28

FFS autocorrect! I did of course mean Palmers Green!

SummerSummerSummertime · 04/09/2020 09:31

Yeah yeah what ever! Of COURSE NL is the best. No contest 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Spidey66 · 04/09/2020 09:34

@BlackLambAndGreyFalcoln I thought so! Palmers Greek! I'm down the railway line a bit, in Ally Pally, via Willesden (where I grew up), Kingsbury, Friern Barnet (I trained as a nurse in the old hospital there and lived in the nurses home), Holloway, Archway, Edmonton (shithole) and now Ally Pally.

hopsalong · 04/09/2020 09:46

South London is a headfuck to me. I like it, lots of parts are beautiful, you have LIDOS galore, but I always feel as if I'm in an alternate universe. There's a road that looks like the North Circular and it's the south Circular, but suddenly you're going round a bend uphill (seems definitely hillier in S London) and there are lots of dark brick 19c buildings and it looks like Sheffield. Everything is the same, but different, familiar but alien.

I do think (as an inveterate N London dweller) that the tube map makes areas somehow easier to map mentally. I would say that West London is as foreign to me as South London, but I have a better mental map of it: Bow, Whitechapel, stations I can see strung out along the lines.

Remember that awful tram crash? I hadn't even known London had trams, which made me feel as if I was completely clueless.

WombatChocolate · 04/09/2020 10:01

A lot of it is historic.....and the history of an area is important and has long lasting impacts, even if people think a bit of gentrification in the last 30 years has totally changed it and as an incomer, only see the surface stuff.

In the past, north London was more expensive and had better transport links. Of course this did not apply to every single area of every property, but generally was the case. There were lots more affluent areas in north London. Many people living in London, were there in the last too and remember these things and despite some changes, still feel part of the older London too. London feels theirs and it's not just the London if today but their last too.

Some areas in south London have improved transport now, although most don't have the tube. SOth Londoners point out that national rail journeys into London can be faster than the tube, but it still a different experience and perhaps seems less citified to be travelling on overground national rail, than a tube service, even if much of that is overground too. Being on a tube line often gives you more stops once you're in zone 1 so lots of options of where to get off, whereas being on an overground service in probably means you need to go to a main terminal and the travel on.

Some areas of south London have increased in popularity and price. There are probably still more relatively cheaper areas than in north London and overall prices in north London exceeded south London.

Then there is the fact that most of the rest of the country is closer to north Lomdon than south, so transport links by road or rail are quicker from north London. Heathrow is the no1 airport...in north west London fringes, whilst Gatwick in the south is the no2.

Culturally of course, what people like varies and different people prefer a vibe of one area than another.

CarrieFour · 04/09/2020 10:23

I was born and bred in South London.

North is like a foreign land to me. Wink

JoJoSM2 · 04/09/2020 10:30

A lot of it is historic.....and the history of an area is important and has long lasting impacts, even if people think a bit of gentrification in the last 30 years has totally changed it and as an incomer, only see the surface stuff.

Statistically speaking, S London is less deprived and has lower crime rates than N. From my S London house I’m also within easy reach of about 15 independent senior schools that have been around for a very long time so I’m not buying ‘a bit of gentrification’ in the last 30yrs.

But it’s a good point that the tube probably makes it feel more ‘city’ than using trains

FizzyPink · 04/09/2020 10:39

The Ginger line is great unless you actually want to go on it on a weekend Hmm

I went from living in Islington to living in SE and the one thing I really miss is how easy it used to be to get anywhere. Now I have a bus to the train station, then get to London Bridge and then a tube. Going into central London seems so much more effort without a direct tube line.

woodlandwalker · 04/09/2020 10:53

Hopsalong - how does the south circular road look like Sheffield? London does not look like Yorkshire.
Despite having no tube, I've lived for years in places with direct trains to Charing Cross - you can't get more central than that. I don't think the tube is an indicator of what counts as London as there are tube stations right out in the country in Amersham.

WombatChocolate · 04/09/2020 11:09

JoJo, I guess areas north north and south of the river have had some gentrification in reality.

Historically house prices were and remain cheaper south of the river. This doesn't apply to all areas and all houses, but it often is the case, that you can get a similar house in a similar area for less, south of the river. In the past, this was even more the case. Whether higher house prices make an area 'better' or actually being a bit more affordable is 'better' is very much a point of view.

Over the years I've known a number of north Londoners move south when starting out, because they could get something as a starter or certainly more for their money south of the river. As others have mentioned, there are big differences when you look east and west too. Some people might happily go from north-west London boroughs to the south-west but would find either the north east or the south east less appealing.

I think with transport the south has been in catch-up. Clearly the tube didn't extend as far south as it went north (right into Bucks and Herts and beyond what became the M25) but southern services have improved with things like ThamesLink and also Oyster has extended beyond the tube into south London too, making the whole transport system feel more unified and perhaps making south London feel more 'part of it'.

There's certain't lying a different feel south of the river. I think north Londoners often notice it. All of Lomdon is ethnically diverse, with some areas having more or less of different groups. And some ethnic groups have been in London in large numbers for longer than others and so perhaps the history of those areas is more permeated by shops, businesses etc which give a different feel.

Schools is an interesting one. Most Lomdon boroughs have non-selective education. I guess the parts of Kent and Essex which fall within London still have selection and some places like Sutton and Kingston and Barent/Enfield have some superselectives. There are plenty of good independnets on both sides of the river and competition is more fierce in Lomdon and the south east for places in sought after schools than elsewhere. Might it be right to say a higher proportion of the really old schools (often public schools with boarding) are based in north London than south? Loads of great, top ranking day schools in both though and further out into Home Counties too,

When you look at the edges of London, so around the M25 and just outside it, Surrey in the south, Bucks and Hertfordshire in the north are probably the most espensice overall. Perhaps historically more people commuted into Lomdon from the northern counties too (although Surrey and parts of Kent big commuter belt too) and the northern Home Counties with their tube lines in the areas just above the M25 have extended that sense of being part of Lomdon, even if not living in a Lomdon borough.

SurreyHillsGirl · 04/09/2020 11:19

I have lived all over London and north London has a way better vibe than south London, south London is just too 'edgy'... and not in a cool way. There is a reason why the housing stock is more expensive than the south. North of the river is clearly where all the best parks, food and entertainment are to be found.

Dulwich is the only part of South London worth considering, and that's because it's way more Surrey village than dodgy sarf London.

LaurieFairyCake · 04/09/2020 11:34

Much less crime here in Blackheath and Greenwich. Much greener, incredible housing stock - the park, the Heath, the river, feels like a mini city in zone 2/3

And 19 minutes to Charing Cross (direct trains to Cannon Street and Victoria too)

If you're in North London you have to be in expensive Zone 1 to beat that time

If you're in Hither Green (lovely green suburbay, family feel) it's only 14 minutes to Charing Cross

A lot of the most desirable spaces in North London are really far away from the centre - Hampstead (very like Blackheath imo), Richmond, Kew, Chiswick - all nice but pretty far away.

Zone 1 in London is great for green space

JoJoSM2 · 04/09/2020 11:37

WombatChocolate, yes house prices are very noticeably different for otherwise v similar areas.
Schoolwise, Harrow is N but again, Prince Phillip went to school in my postcode and the current royal children are educated South of the river in an area that has a fair representation of UC/vvUMC populations.

JoJoSM2 · 04/09/2020 11:38

Celebrities do favour N London, though.

JoJoSM2 · 04/09/2020 11:44

@LaurieFairyCake Richmond is S of the river too.

daisypond · 04/09/2020 11:49

I wouldn’t really describe Richmond, Kew or Chiswick as being either in south or north London.

Sophoa · 04/09/2020 11:49

Ooh no. Definitely not S London. Once a N Londoner you’re a N Londoner for life

JoJoSM2 · 04/09/2020 11:58

I wouldn’t really describe Richmond, Kew or Chiswick as being either in south or north London.

Someone should draw a map so we know what areas we’re talking about lol To me Richmond is SW and Chiswick is W.

JoJoSM2 · 04/09/2020 11:59

I wonder how many people actually identify as living in S London vs SE/SW given there’s no such thing as S postcodes.

daisypond · 04/09/2020 12:19

An alternative view:

North London/South London divide
Tablefor4 · 04/09/2020 14:17

@DaisyPond wins for that map!

JoJoSM2 · 04/09/2020 14:39

Is Wimbledon Village on the boarder of rough, poor and trendy? Grin

Desiringonlychild · 04/09/2020 14:43

my DH grew up in north london and he refuses to go anywhere south of the river.

He called dulwich grotty (please don't flame, its his words not mine, i like dulwich). I got him to view a property there, and never heard the end of it. He claimed that the air gave him heart palpitations and hayfever (wth) and had to stop at a superdrug for hayfever tablets.

Which is why we ended up buying in east finchley. I don't think I could ever get him to move outside north london (assuming that the move is a UK move rather than an international one). St Albans might be as far we can venture.

I don't quite understand it.

Chicchicchicchiclana · 04/09/2020 16:17

@Desiringonlychild

my DH grew up in north london and he refuses to go anywhere south of the river.

He called dulwich grotty (please don't flame, its his words not mine, i like dulwich). I got him to view a property there, and never heard the end of it. He claimed that the air gave him heart palpitations and hayfever (wth) and had to stop at a superdrug for hayfever tablets.

Which is why we ended up buying in east finchley. I don't think I could ever get him to move outside north london (assuming that the move is a UK move rather than an international one). St Albans might be as far we can venture.

I don't quite understand it.

There's always someone who takes a joke too far.
nancy75 · 04/09/2020 16:24

@tobee

My dsis and family are north London. I'm south.

She goes on about all the history in north London and points out where all the celebrities live. I have to pretend to be impressed. 😑 Her Dh says he couldn't possibly live in south London because it's so flat apparently 🙄🙄🙄

Tell him to come and run up the hill from the bottom of Greenwich park to the observatory at the top 😂