Fed up with all the mixed coronavirus messages eg social distancing , but you can fly ???

[Charliescar]

I am fed up with it all .

You can fly and sit next to a complete stranger on a plane with recirculating air , but people can’t go into an office ?

Shops, bars etc open , people everywhere where I live , little distancing going on , yet these same people are working from home .

People are picking up products in shops and putting them back , you were not supposed to do this , yet we can’t try things on ? Clothes also quarantined on return , yet people handling them on shop floor.

Not wearing face masks on pubs and restaurants, where people are very close together . People are going out with lots of different households - you are not supposed to do this . Then worry about their kids going back to school or they want to wfh ?

I am starting to find it all a bit bizarre ,

The thing that bothers me about the policy is people not being asked to self isolate except for specific destinations. That story about the group of teenagers who went to Greece and half came back COVID positive and had been out and about in their hometown for days spreading it around.

That would scare me about going to the office, knowing that Joe a few desks down just got off a plane.

Went on a plane (BA) the other day. Chose BA as I hoped for more social distancing. There was none at all. I saw strangers being sat shoulder to shoulder. Masks were on but then taken off when the crisps came round. Still the usual scrum to get on the plane. No temperature checks. I wouldn't have flown if I didn't really have to. I'm not worried about it coming in from other countries as it's already firmly here, but no doubt planes are good place for it to spread. They should ban food on short haul for adults and make makes compulsory all through the flight.

People aren’t sitting next to each other on most flights as the middle seats are generally out of action (BA etc)

The centre seat isn't routinely kept vacant at BA or most other airlines..I've flown on a few full flights recently.

However masks mandatory, boarding/disembarkation done in row order rows, queuing for toilets not allowed, no walk through cabin service.

and there is something with the air being replaced every 3 minutes?

Depends on the aircraft but it's replaced multiple times an hour, that air which is recirculated does so via HEPA filters, the "new" air that is added to the system is ducted in from outside...

@zigaziga

People aren’t sitting next to each other on most flights as the middle seats are generally out of action (BA etc) and there is something with the air being replaced every 3 minutes?

But yeah I think the rules in shops about trying things on are a bit OTT 🤷‍♀️ A lot of time it’s just for risk assessment purposes and to show / pretend they’re doing something I think.

Nope not the case. I flew back from Poland last week on a relatively full flight. No seats blocked out and whilst masks compulsory, quite a few people were wearing them on their chins / nose uncovered.

Ironically Poland is not yet on quarantine list but precautions in their airports are very strict. Temperature testing, hand sanitizers before each contact area. Army at doors etc to give instructions. We had to fill ina detailed form for track and trade with the airline (wizz air)

Landed in uk. Straight through automated gates. No one checking where we had landed from or if we had completed the online government form. Had printed out the email and QI code we were told we needed. No one even asked for it. No temperature checks.

Doesn’t surprise me at all - and we will be where france / spain etc are again in a few weeks I’m sure. The difference is we won’t take the measures they are when it happens and we will be the country hardest hit again. It’s an embarrassment

At Heathrow they were being militant about the forms, which is fair enough except it was was a new system and they have decided it's paperless. Given no one outside the UK knows about it there were a mass of people including me stood up trying to fill it in in. Grimy airport shared ipad because most people don't get UK roaming on entry to UK, nor does the airport WiFi work as it's an unsafe connection for filling in all your details on a govt website. All fine and resolvable, were it not for one particular member of the border staff who I heard telling an elderly Indian fellow "it's only in English and you need to fill it in on your own, I'm not helping you so you're going to be here a long time". Imagine arriving in India where you don't speak the language as an 80 year old and having an iPad thrust at you and being told to just figure it out. In Indian.

Op, I totally agree with all your points. It doesn't add up. Yet employees are saying they can't go into the office and have to wfh?

But schools are going back, people are flying, out at pubs etc?

@Charliescar

This is what I find strange - flying. It’s not really necessary , but there is no social distancing, planes are apparently filthy and germ fests - yet people won’t go to the office ?

Or worried about sending kids to school ?

This isn't accurate. Aircraft have medical grade HEPA filters in their air conditioning systems so the air is much cleaner than other enclosed spaces.

The key area where aeroplanes did transmit germs were via surfaces (tray tables etc) because they weren't properly cleaned between flights. Hopefully they are now being properly cleaned

Anyone else just worn down by illogic? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4005984-Anyone-else-just-worn-down-by-illogic

Yanbu and see the thread above for many examples of ridiculous rules.

It just seems bollocks that I can't let my DM sit on my sofa but I can sit shoulder to shoulder with strangers. The 14 day quarantine seems pointless if the person can go straight into a taxi or public transport.

I agree OP. Especially with your point about flying. It's a nonsense. The air filtering thing is a red herring as it doesn't happen on the runway, and you're still sharing air and touching surfaces with passengers close by.

*Aircraft have medical grade HEPA filters in their air conditioning systems so the air is much cleaner than other enclosed spaces.

The key area where aeroplanes did transmit germs were via surfaces (tray tables etc) because they weren't properly cleaned between flights. Hopefully they are now being properly cleaned*

Yep...IMHO it's worth carrying a supply of suitably formulated wipes for use on armrests and surfaces such as the seat back and the tray table ( if one is fitted )..

The air filtering thing is a red herring as it doesn't happen on the runway,

Boeing and Airbus issued guidance earlier in the year for running the APU and air conditioning systems on the ground ( taxying and when parked up with passengers on board) in a manner which improved through flow and increase the volume of fresh air into the cabin..also if the A/C packs are operating on the ground (and Boeing guidance was on the types I'm aware of it should be it should be) any recirculated air is still goes through the HEPA filters.

On the runway for most take offs the air conditioning is on, so recirculated air filtering is happening.

For the instances where an air conditioning "packs off" take-off is required they are usually turned off just before lining up, and stay off for a matter of a minute or so, until the aircraft is maybe climbing through a thousand feet or so - during that time you are no more exposed to "stale" air than you would be on a train classroom or similar.

Hope that helps.

@notimagain that is interesting, but is not in line with what I read in the independent last month. Apologies, but I can't find the article to link to it. It was written by a journalist of course, but sounded credible and involved research and discussion with air travel experts. I cancelled a holiday on the back of it!

I've just flown and the plane was disinfected in between flights, they clearly told us not to use our own wipes on the tables etc as it would remove the protection from their disinfectant.
The air is passed through a Hepa filter about every 3 minutes, everyone wore masks. No queuing allowed in the aisles.
But yes the plane was full so some strangers were sat together.
Felt totally comfortable with the procedures they'd put in place though.
I do agree lots of things in the guidelines are confusing.

@Chaotic45

Not sure how well placed the Independent correspondent is or how well qualified he/she is on the subject but my source is Boeing documentation plus in-company proprietary documentation that was published back in the early Spring, when all this really started.

EASA/Boeing/Airbus were well aware that having an aircraft on the ramp up with passengers on board with no forced air circulation was something that needed to be minimised and ideally be completely avoided if at all possible given the current circumstances.

Guidance on the subject went out to all the airlines.

Certainly on the aircraft I have some knowledge of the procedures, or timings thereof, to be used prior to engine start or after shutdown were slightly changed.

Sorry to hear about your holiday..

[quote notimagain]**@Chaotic45

Not sure how well placed the Independent correspondent is or how well qualified he/she is on the subject but my source is Boeing documentation plus in-company proprietary documentation that was published back in the early Spring, when all this really started.

EASA/Boeing/Airbus were well aware that having an aircraft on the ramp up with passengers on board with no forced air circulation was something that needed to be minimised and ideally be completely avoided if at all possible given the current circumstances.

Guidance on the subject went out to all the airlines.

Certainly on the aircraft I have some knowledge of the procedures, or timings thereof, to be used prior to engine start or after shutdown were slightly changed.

Sorry to hear about your holiday..[/quote]
@Chaotic45
Probably a bit daft to cancel a holiday off the back of the nonsense some journo is spouting without doing your own research.
My source is my DH who has been an airline pilot for 15 years so suspect he knows a bit more about it than your average hack.

One thing I've learnt in this pandemic is to read the news less and the primary sources of info more

Probably a bit daft to cancel a holiday off the back of the nonsense some journo is spouting without doing your own research.

Shame Chaos didn't do a fact check here earlier, they might have been able to save their holiday if they had been so minded ... I suspect there are a few flight crew (i.e. pilots) on MN who operate this systems as part of their working day and no doubt engineers who work on them.

The thing with WFH is that the reason people want to continue isn't necessarily to do with COVID fear. My commute is 3 hours a day. If I have the chance to give that up, I'm not going to restart it to save bloody Pret A Manger. And hundreds of thousands of people feel the same. I'm planning to go back once a week, tops.

@Alconleigh this is exactly what I mean . You were happy to do that prior to Covid ? If not why didn’t you change your job or live closer to your job ? It’s precisely this problem with people not actually living where they work , or in a reasonable distance .
I hope that when your kids grow up they manage to find jobs and wonder why we cocked everything up for them. How on earth are young people going to train for jobs if everyone decides to work from home ?

@Charliescar spot on- how can new starters learn how to do a job if they and everyone else is WFH? This is especially pertinent for young people starting out in the world of work- we all learn so much about how to be (and how not to be) effective from working alongside others- both via direct training and unconscious osmosis.

Well I did work from home some days before this, to break it up, so this is more that I am now able to do more of that, than something new. Suspect that's true for a lot of people. I agree with you that how we live and work is a big part of the problem, and my guess (and it is just a guess) is that this is why we have fewer people back in the office than other European countries; longer commutes and a poorer work-life balance. Give people the chance to change that and they're going to grab it.

Government are saying go back to work. Trouble is many prefer wfh.