Rented accommodation and repairs

[Mythologies]

Hello,
I rent a flat with a garden
The fence blew down months ago.
I emailed and phoned and texted and went in person to the landlord.
They had a different reply every time
The were going to do it but ...
The fence was not theirs (it is)
They were going to take my neighbour to court over the fence (they aren't)
etc. etc. etc. for months
In the end I emailed saying I was going to pay a fencer if they still did not come round and gave them the option of paying or me deducting from rent.
They said they would pay £150 of the £250 but nothing was to be deducted from the rent and to send invoice.
I did not reply but had the work done and sent them photos and invoice and bank transfer from my account and said did they want to pay me directly or should I take it from September's rent.
Their last email says nothing was authorised (I have email saying go ahead)
and rent is to be paid in full or the £250 will be deducted from my deposit (which is in a deposit protection scheme)
Should I deduct the £250 from the rent?
Many thanks for any advice

Your landlord is not required to fix the fence, it doesn’t make the property uninhabitable for you. Unless f course your tenancy agreements state that they have to do this, which seems unlikely.

However as you have it in writing that they will refund £150 then I think you can reasonably hold them to that, but not £250. Assuming you have only just paid for the repair and assuming September rent is due soon, then no I would not deduct it this month. I would write to them including your authorisation to spend £150 and say if it is not paid to you directly, then you will deduct £150 off next months rent.

Thanks @Florencex
Citizen's advice seemed to think I could deduct it from the rent if I gave them warning as the fence blew down in the middle of the garden making it unusable and insecure.
Basically, my neighbour gave me no peace until I got it fixed because the out of control bull mastiffs on the other side got through into my garden through the broken fence on that side and went freely through my garden and the blown down fence into her garden and almost into her house. It was she who spoke to to the CAB
It seems safer for the tenancy to go with your second option, though?
They are shit landlords :(

Cab once again are wrong or your neighbour has lied to you, or misunderstood. . Your neighbour has a duty to keep their animals off your property, not you. It is their responsibility to fence them in, not yours to keep them out.

Previous poster is correct in what they said. There is no legal duty for your landlord to repair the fence unless it is an obligation in the tenancy agreement which is unlikely, but you should check.
If you withold rent, you will be in rent arrears and that may impact your credit rating and reference and may impact your future ability to rent a property.

There is a legal term called promissory estoppel. This means there is a defence in a legal action where you have relied on a promise to your detriment. In this case you relied upon the agreement the ll would pay toward a fence repair and made payment to a third party on that basis.

Where this leaves you, is a polite letter, not email, to the ll, not the agent, reminding them of their agreement and that you look forward to receiving their contribution at their earliest convenience. Or would they prefer you deduct it from the October rent?That is the grown up and legal way of dealing with things.

@Mythologies

Thanks *@Florencex* Citizen's advice seemed to think I could deduct it from the rent if I gave them warning as the fence blew down in the middle of the garden making it unusable and insecure. Basically, my neighbour gave me no peace until I got it fixed because the out of control bull mastiffs on the other side got through into my garden through the broken fence on that side and went freely through my garden and the blown down fence into her garden and almost into her house. It was she who spoke to to the CAB It seems safer for the tenancy to go with your second option, though? They are shit landlords :(

I have not said you can not deduct the £150 from rent. I have said that on the assumption that your September rent is due in the next couple of days, I would give them proper notice to either pay the invoice or advise you will deduct £150 from October rent. You had no grounds to recoup the full £250 as you voluntarily spent it and the landlord is not mandated to provide fencing (unless your contract says they are).

The roaming dogs are not your issue to solve, you could have directed the complaining neighbour to the dog owner.

Thanks both, I will not risk taking the money from the rent.
But did you mean to be so rude?
Perhaps you don’t know what it feels like to be poor and in insecure accommodation.
:(
The letter (followed up by email) I wrote to the landlords says exactly what you suggest: It asks them politely how they would like to pay.
I hope that is grown up enough for you?
I have no idea how to proceed legally and was very unsure about the second hand advice from CAB to withhold rent- hence my original post!

Of course I have taken up the issue of three huge bull mastiffs breaking into my garden directly with dog owner (and the council, the police and the RSPCA). Dog owners say “Oh, yes” and then do absolutely nothing.
Neighbour with broken fence rightly wants to feel safe - it’s my problem as they are my direct neighbours, not hers.

No, don’t deduct money from the rent. It’s never a wise move.

@Florencex @Lineofconcepcion
Thanks anyway for taking the time to reply - but it might be worthwhile remembering that the Mumsnet boards are not (or should not be) all as hostile as AIBU.

Apologies, but I don't subscribe to the knock private landlords brigade at any cost, particularly at the moment with some being put in an untenable position by the actions of a government that has absolutely no idea what it's doing. Rather than saying you have a shit landlord, maybe explain in what way you believe they have failed in their statutory duties.

As I said use promissory estoppel if you have further issues, and maybe advise the landlord to seek legal advice if they fail to pay you what has been promised.

@Lineofconcepcion
Shit landlords because they shouted abuse at me when I went to speak to them about the fence.
They then wrote mad threatening emails saying they were going to take my neighbour to court over the fence.
I have paid the high rent in full, on time for nearly 5 years - looked after the property beautifully and asked them for nothing before now.
I believed (because CAB told me so) that the fence was their responsibility and was investigating how to act accordingly.

I sympathise OP and it’s a shame you have had to pay for the fence, hopefully you will get at least some of the money back
However, paying the rent on time and looking after the property is just what you should be doing, it’s not something unusual

I would speak to Shelter. They can provide more specific advice about tenants rights and disputes.

Wow- we have the boot licker brigade out in force!

The landlord has a responsibility to ensure your home is safe and secure. Right now they aren’t and are dodging paying out (as per all landlords I ever dealt with). Are they planning on leaving the fence down forever to dodge paying for it?

I’m similar to you, I rent a ground floor flat and a small portion of the shared garden is mines only. A sewage pipe burst leaking human waste into my garden. My landlord refused to fix it as they seen it as shared between the whole block. I contacted environmental health who were not happy. Said the problem was affecting me directly as a tenant and so it was my landlords responsibility. They had words with my landlord who fixed it.

I’m not sure what else you can do, could you ask CAB to help you write a letter?

I am signing off on this thread - it is all too upsetting- especially the advice to go to Shelter - have we really come to this in this country?
“You are a tenant, ergo, poor and unprotected except by expensive lawyers or a charity that tries to offer help to the most vulnerable.”
Well done you property owners - my you long be safe from your sworn enemies - the tenants who give you three quarters of their salary every month.
I am
Now going to ask for this thread to be deleted.

Sending love @Mythologies

I hope you get it sorted soon.

You’ve had good advice OP, and shelter deal with this sort of thing all the time, there’s no reason for that advice to have upset you. It sounds like you’re feeling extremely sensitive, and I hope you feel better soon.

@franklyshankly2
Thanks. - waiting for Mumsnet to take this down.
It is sorted in that I have already paid for the fence to be fixed.
It had been down since the storms in April.
My neighbour had had enough.

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/landlord_and_tenant_responsibilities_for_repairs

Shelter have some useful information for private renters. They advise/campaign on all aspects of rented housing, not just homelessness. Suggesting you contact Shelter is not implying you are poor or vulnerable.

Why is advising you to go to Shelter so bad? They are very knowledgeable about Tenants rights

Have you checked your tenancy agreement? No, didn't think so . . .

But you have not explained how they have failed in their statutory duty to you. The landlord is not responsible for the fence, that is the law unless it is specified in the tenancy agreement. The case I think is a Lord Denning judgment from way back.

@Lineofconcepcion
Why would you think I had not checked my contract?
It was the first thing I did.
My contract is a very long, very generic list of the tenants obligations.
It has a lot of ifs -

if the property has a garden, the tenant must not fill it with rubbish

Landlord's only obligation in the contract is to supply a gas certificate.
(two years ago the boiler failed and had a big DO NOT USE sticker put on it, but they got another gas person out who signed it off - no idea if the boiler is safe)
So the flat comes under generic do I have use of the property or not.

I had/have no idea what a broken fence comes under.
I would have thought a conversation with a decent landlord would have been possible (I have rented all my life and have always been able to talk to the landlord)
So this is why telling me to go to Shelter (who presumably have more pressing problems than my fence) or going down the path of who is right legally (my landlords have said wildly different things in every reply to my email - and made no offer to talk about whose responsibility it is to fix the fence.
Very happy for you that you can quote Lord Denning and I foresee many more rulings in landlords' favour in the future.
Still waiting for Mumsnet to take this down but certainly getting the drift of how landlords think.

Can I ask- who’s responsibility would it be to fix the fence if not the landlord?

@franklyshankly2
Who knows? Just not the landlord's.

@franklyshankly2

Can I ask- who’s responsibility would it be to fix the fence if not the landlord?

Nobody is legally obliged to fix a fence. If somebody wants to leave a fence broken that is their choice.

[quote Mythologies]**@Florencex* @Lineofconcepcion*
Thanks anyway for taking the time to reply - but it might be worthwhile remembering that the Mumsnet boards are not (or should not be) all as hostile as AIBU.[/quote]
I am genuinely and utterly baffled as to what you found hostile.

🧐