Nicola Sturgeon and masks in Scotland.

[Ohshitx]

Nicola Sturgeon today refused to rule out making it compulsory for Primary aged children to wear masks in school where it isn’t possible to socially distance. These guidelines have already been issued for high school pupils.

How is that going to work? How do you get kids aged 5 to safely wear, and appropriately remove masks? Surely they’ll be swapping them like Pokemon cards by the end of the first day 🙄

Beginning to feel more and more like Scotland’s kids were the guinea pigs.

Queue politicians making decisions on mask wearing in frankly ludicrous situations like in a school classroom

They’re not, though, are they? Secondary schools kids are going to be wearing them in corridors and so on but not in classrooms.

My 6-year-old has been wearing a mask in shops for weeks now and is absolutely fine with it. Of course not all children would be able to, but it seems like most of the fraught drama over this particular issue is coming from the adults.

@Malteserdiet
Would you rather we just binned the masks then and head into catastrophic infection levels??
I do think NS through this has been far superior to invisible Johnson, she has faced the press and public and been honest, learning as she goes, like us all in unprecedented times, no politicizing. Those who claim it’s all attention seeking etc are small minded and seem to forget she is the FM and is only doing her job, if she wasn’t visible she’s be vilified too.

@Vintagevixen

How exactly is she 'scoring points'?

She is head of government, she's been elected to lead, a huge part of her job is to direct and decide on policy and approach. If she's asked about the possibility of children being compelled to wear masks, how is she supposed to answer the question without 'scoring points'? She can only either confirm it's policy, rule it out entirely, advise that no decision has been made at this point, or ignore the question entirely.

In your view, how exactly does a FM go about answering that specific question without 'scoring points'?

I didn't mention an RCT. That would be unlikely in the midst of a pandemic. But there is evidence. There are numerous studies and reports on mask wearing in the community including from the US; from Asia; studies looking at transmission rates, spread and deaths. That is why mask-wearing is supported by the WHO and the CDC.

Another u turn, senior schools in lockdown areas need to wear face masks. Other schools to set their own policies.

And it will probably come as no surprise that I too agree with @Vintagevixen
ICU staff fitted professionally with proper masks and also trained how to use them correctly so that they are effective is one thousand times removed from a teenager wearing a scarf around her mouth and nose on and off all day or a paper or cloth mask thrown into a pocket or grubby bag and retrieved whenever it is supposed to be worn.

I have a close relative who is a midwife. They didn’t have to wear masks all day unless dealing with a covid patient all the way until June time when it became compulsory for the general public to wear them inside hospitals. They were told they couldn’t ask the public to wear a mask and not the staff. In her clinical experience, in order for a paper mask to be even of the tiniest use, it must be put on with clean hands, not touched at all after that and should really be changed every hour. As soon as it becomes wet or you cough in it, it’s immediately ineffective and needs changing. That’s before we talk about spray from a sneeze or cough coming out the sides of a mask in the majority of cases because there are gaping holes all the way down the sides of the cheeks.

There is not proof masks reduce infection levels though - Peru have had one of the strictest lockdowns and been wearing masks since the start, they have a very high level of infection per million.

Argentina have been wearing masks since April 14 - again very high levels per million of population.

Sweden - no masks, no lockdown, lots of social distancing and working from home and their deaths per day are minimal now (they also admitted they got it wrong on care homes.)

Masks are just one variable in amongst many.

But then I am not a second waver - I am convinced T cell immunity is underestimated. And I don't read the tabloid press.

And now, literally anything that constitutes a change of policy is a 'U-turn'

Yup, we should have just stuck with the policies in place back in March, to hell with any changes in circumstances, evidence, advice. Nope, we can't have politicians changing policy according to need.

Personally I'm still outraged over the u-turn over window tax and the Statute of Marlborough

But then I am not a second waver - I am convinced T cell immunity is underestimated. And I don't read the tabloid press
I'm unclear who that is aimed at but it seems to embody a tabloid attitude to debate.

This would be a disaster My 7 year old can't do more than 20mins in a mask as she's developed a habit of licking the fucking thing and making it wet??!! She also still wipes her nose on her sleeve. I'm sick of telling her to stop.

God help her poor teacher if they have to put up with both disgusting habits!

DS’s school has been wearing masks on buses and communal spaces since the schools went back.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX
Any thread mentioning NS always gets hijacked by yoons and their personal dislike of her, they can’t discuss anything without their nonsense coming out, it’s not about policy it’s their inherent resentment & dislike of a woman, one who is being praised around the world and gaining new support through this pandemic.

My 7 year old can't do more than 20mins in a mask

But even if primary schools had to do the same as secondary, she wouldn’t have to wear one for 20 minutes, she’d have to wear one for as long as it takes to walk down a corridor?

Sorry that was in response to Amortentia saying I might not want to read the tabloid press up thread, I really am not a tabloid reader so her suggestion I might be was far off the mark.

I'm fine with a scientific approach to debate, I just want hard evidence, and the evidence is very flimsy on masks.

Erm I think you’ve just proved my point with that last sentence @SBTLove

I think it's aimed at me as I referred to the tabloid coverage of the Nike Confrence. This conference has been used by the media as a stick to beat NS, but then it turned out they were talking nonsense.

Sorry that was in response to Amortentia

Oops, I just skipped all the posts rehashing the old debates on NS, Nike, etc, so had missed that.

@SBTLove

Indeed, and to be honest, I find it a bit odd that a forum full of women that has a very active 'Feminism' section, constantly decries the lack of prominent and successful women in our society, evidently despises NS with a passion. You'd think she'd be held up as an example, but no, she gets torn to shreds for simply being honest about the fact government is rather feeling around in the dark with regards to Covid, putting her head above the parapet, and admitting that she's trying to do the best she can under unprecedented and constantly changing circumstances.

It's ridiculous the spite and pettiness directed at her on here, especially so when it's crystal clear to any remotely subjective observer that she's leaps and bounds ahead of the leaders of the parties her critics on mumsnet support.

It's absolutely true, the adage about the favourite pastime of Brits being knocking and destroying their own successful people.

Erm hmm I think you’ve just proved my point with that last sentence @SBTLove**

Right, so you'd only be happy if she was making a complete and utter hash of Covid, Scots were dying in droves thanks to SG incompetence, and NS was being criticised and pilloried, losing support and recognition worldwide? Really? That's what you'd prefer?

I think you've just proved a lot about yourself @Malteserdiet

Bitter and angry simply because you dislike the politics of a leader who is actually making a decent fist of things, and receiving the appropriate recognition for it.

Start a discussion in FWR then. On the general boards, as on Twitter, certain posters can rehash the Referendum ad infinitum. It is very dull. It's also futile. It's not going to change anyone's view. All it does is stifle and derail debate about current issues.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX
I honestly think it’s some weird misogynistic thing, I’m an active SNP member and campaigned for my local MP, I have had more women than men openly say ‘I hate Sturgeon’ yet when asked can’t offer a reason only sexist name calling. Regardless of whether you believe in independence I really think she has been frank and open throughout and like all other countries we are learning as we do yet here we have pp yapping ‘Scotland is a guinea pig’, aren’t all countries?

If you look on Medrxiv for an article entitled "Genomic epidemiology od SARS-CoV-2 spread in Scotland" by Filipe. Shepard et al they clearly mention links to an "international event" in Edinburgh (apologies not Glasgow as I first thought) that is the Nike conference.

They have tracked the genomics of the Scottish outbreak and mention that a good portion of seeding did come from this conference.

Not peer reviewed yet but definitely not tabloid!

I don't think any politician is above scrutiny myself, including NS.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX nope afraid you’ve totally missed who I am in real life. But never mind, just because we disagree I am aware that I will be thrown insults on here - this wonderful, supportive parenting forum!

@Vintagevixen

If you look on Medrxiv for an article entitled "Genomic epidemiology od SARS-CoV-2 spread in Scotland" by Filipe. Shepard et al they clearly mention links to an "international event" in Edinburgh (apologies not Glasgow as I first thought) that is the Nike conference.

They have tracked the genomics of the Scottish outbreak and mention that a good portion of seeding did come from this conference.

Not peer reviewed yet but definitely not tabloid!

I don't think any politician is above scrutiny myself, including NS.

That's the point, this conference was closely tracked. The media made out some kind of reckless cover up took place. You mentioned it in the first place as if it was some kind of failure on the part of the Scottish gov. But this was at the very start of the outbreak and unless Scotland closed all borders in February they could not have stoped it. Plus, it was brought in by an international visitor who spread it to other non-Scottish residents who were tracked.

nope afraid you’ve totally missed who I am in real life. But never mind, just because we disagree I am aware that I will be thrown insults on here - this wonderful, supportive parenting forum!

No, I've got a pretty good handle on you just by your comments in this thread alone.

An also, I didn't 'insult' you, I asked you a rhetorical question, then described my impression of you. I don't see where there's any insult, in fact, I'd welcome you actually explaining how on earth you conclude that a woman in leadership, being asked a question and giving a straight answer, somehow equates to a 'power grab'. You still haven't given me an answer though to why you think a leader receiving widespread praise for the approach and handling of Covid is a bad thing, so I'll not expect an answer to the 'power grab' claim either.