Anyone here a “digital nomad” (or thinking of being one)?

[Aridane]

Strange term but it seems to be a thing.

With my office shut, I’m toying with the idea of working remotely overseas and instead of my sofa at home (LOATHE working from home). It’s just a thought at the moment, no concrete plans.

But if I did it, it would probably be the EU as 1) same time zone, and 2) until end of year still enjoy EHIC reciprocal care.

Has anyone done this or thinking of doing this?

Tax and social security implications for the company, implications for insurances, etc.

You can apply for permission by exception.

The point is to discuss it with them and understand what's possible.

Bali is full of Aussie digital nomads.

boltzmannbrains - can I ask where you choose to locate yourself?

I was still primarily based in London (I have to spent a certain number of days in the UK as this is where I’m registered for tax), but spent chunks of time in various other countries, rather than permanently relocating. For example Germany is the main hub in continental Europe for my specific area so I often spend a few months in the summer in Berlin. EU is easiest (well, pre-Brexit) and I have family in France and speak French, though the bureaucracy in France is unreal. My work often takes me to NY and I used to have a flat there but America is tricky if you don’t have a green card, which I don’t. I also have an Israeli passport so have free movement there.

I’m very fortunate that I’m not salaried or paid an hourly wage (creative freelancer), so figuring out things like working visas and tax implication is a little easier.

I see a lot more knowledgeable people than me have arrived on the thread to help you, I just thought I'd raise it so you could investigate further!

I have been told that my team can work from anywhere in the UK during lockdown while our offices are closed. But need to return their base locations when offices reopen. And not outside UK.

Maybe you can sort something though, sounds lovely if you can manage it!

No idea about rules and regulations, but IIRC the government of Barbados has all sorts of incentives to encourage people to WFH from there. I mean, you did say you wanted nicer weather

Wrong time zone, @Letmegetthisrightasawoman - but I have to confess that the Barbadian govern,ent announcement was in part what triggered this line of thinking.

On tax, surely it must be a question of degree? So if I went to look after my sick granny in Italy for. 2 weeks - and worked remotely - surely that doesn’t make me resident for Italian tax purposes? Or for a month? or two?

Colleagues of mine do extensive business trips overseas (back in the days on business travel) and didn’t lose their UK tax residency. However, they did have to be careful that with certain countries they didn’t stay more than x days (otherwise they would trigger overseas tax charges )

@Aridane since you’d be leaving for such a short time there wouldn’t likely be any tax implications at all. You’d probably go for what, 3 months at most? Three months is usually the changeover point For things like visas or other types of litigation.

I’ve been a digital nomad in the past and am a bit more settled now. I’m feeling the itch though and would love to go back to France. If I were you I’d choose one place for two months then another place for one month or 6 weeks depending on how long you want to be out of the UK. Are you looking to be back by mid-December?

Yes, @JingsMahBucket - ideally I would want to be back by Christmas / end of transitional period. And probably not even three months - just long enough to get over the hump of not being in the office or a bad UK winter .

Good idea about going to x2 places!

@JingsMahBucket - can I ask where you nomadded?

BTW - had never heard of “digital nomad” until I googled about spending winter away from the uk and working remotely. Now quite a few articles given how many of us are physical exiles from the office and how good technology now is

True digital nomads are self-employed and tend to do a variety of things like blogging with affiliate marketing, and move around between different countries. If you have an employed job with PAYE and your employer lets you move abroad but keep your job, that's not really what being a digital nomad is.

France but I’d sometimes move between cities. I’d use different coworking spaces or (coworking) cafes to work from, because then I could feel better about leaving my stuff while I went to the bathroom or left for lunch. If you’re seriously only leaving for a couple of months, most governments would consider this a “vacation” of sorts and you’d be fine regarding taxes. Don’t let it deter you.

As for accommodations, I used Airbnb. Given that people are traveling less now, a lot of listings are cheaper than usual. Many listings have 30 day options with a slight or more generous discount. Some may offer a paltry 5% off and some are 20% off for a 30 day booking. I’d start looking around cities or towns where you think it would be warmer and do a search for houses with good amenities but are still affordable.

Also maybe consider pet sitting? Then again, I think those sites you have to build up a good reputation. A home exchange might be a good solution too. Would you be able to rent out your UK place while you’re gone?

@Yogurtflavours

True digital nomads are self-employed and tend to do a variety of things like blogging with affiliate marketing, and move around between different countries. If you have an employed job with PAYE and your employer lets you move abroad but keep your job, that's not really what being a digital nomad is.

This isn’t necessarily true. There are lots of properly employed digital nomads. Because they keep hopping from country to country, that’s how they avoid the tax implications. They would still be paying taxes in their home country but not the host country because they’re not there long enough to establish tax residency. Again, that’s usually either 90 days or 180 days. Hence the 183 day rule about being out of your home country. Most countries have that 183 day rule.

No, but one of dp's employees is. He's currently home due to Covid, but has spent most of the time he's been employed working from internet cafes in Cambodia and Vietnam (he is a programmer). Its something I'd love to do, but not really possible as i am a nurse and not practical with the dc.

True digital nomads are self-employed and tend to do a variety of things like blogging with affiliate marketing, and move around between different countries. If you have an employed job with PAYE and your employer lets you move abroad but keep your job, that's not really what being a digital nomad is.

Says who? I prefer my digital nomads to pay tax properly!

Surely the whole point is for people to have the freedom to live and work as suits them without having to follow the assumed patterns of how to live. I dont think there can be hard and fast rules of what a "proper" digital nomad is.

@Aridane

Wrong time zone, *@Letmegetthisrightasawoman* - but I have to confess that the Barbadian govern,ent announcement was in part what triggered this line of thinking.

I would be tempted to try Barbados and just live around the time zone issue. Like work at night, dinner at dawn, sleep in the day, get up for sunset breakfast on the beach...

Be aware that EHIC technically only covers you for healthcare while on holiday or short trip abroad. It doesn't cover you for living abroad - different EU countries have their own systems for that. DSD's BF is considering WFH in the UK though on a similar basis to what you're suggesting. He's American. He plans not to tell the tax authorities, and just to come on a tourist visa with tourist health insurance. I suspect he'll get away with it for a few months.

Tax for yourself and your employer
Insurance for your employer

Have you asked them.

I am - since kids moving is a bit more involved, so we're slowing down a bit now eldest is heading to secondary, but previously we've moved about once every 18months

Tax-wise, this can be tricky (depends on location how long you have before you're supposed to register/get id/whatever), but in each case, one of us has had a proper job in the place with all the advice and legal standing that come with that.

If you're just planing on spending < 6 months somewhere it generally doesn't matter at all anyway (except for your home house insurance!), as that's normally threshold for becoming tax resident in a place (again, always check!).

Absolutely no reason not to up sticks for a month or two somewhere. Find an airbnb or a serviced apartment and have a change of scenery. Why not.

If you have an employed job with PAYE and your employer lets you move abroad but keep your job

But it's not 'moving abroad' - you're not registering kids for school, porting your driving license, setting up a bank account, with the intention of staying there long term - you're just visiting. Home is still home, this is just a holiday for a few months.

@TreestumpsAndTrampolines

If you have an employed job with PAYE and your employer lets you move abroad but keep your job

But it's not 'moving abroad' - you're not registering kids for school, porting your driving license, setting up a bank account, with the intention of staying there long term - you're just visiting. Home is still home, this is just a holiday for a few months.

The company insurance may prevent it

The company insurance may prevent it

My experience of this is if your company is already set up for home working, or for travel for work, then this isn't an issue. They will already have device insurance, policies and security for data etc. YMMV.

Several of my husband's colleagues ( multijurisdictional law firm) spend six weeks or so working away over the summer. Often relocating to their home country did childcare/ extended stays with family. Provided they still manage their practices no one seems to mind or particularly notice.

Lockdown and remote working has helped us to realise how easy and enjoyable this arrangement could be and we fully intend to decamp kids, work and a dog to The Alps for a month next summer. I'll be catching up on reports, my husband just doing his normal job ( and praying to the gods of WiFi...) I'm a psychologist and I know of a few colleagues who have recently rearranged their practices in this way.

It sounds like a great life experience. I'd do a bit of research and go for it!

Where do you want to go, by the way?

There's a potential tax issue for the company in that you might set up a 'permanent establishment' of your company in that other jurisdiction, meaning the company then has to pay corporation tax in wherever you are.

We are also prohibited from using company devices or logging into the system from abroad as the data protection rights will be different in each country, so to protect client data we can't access it outside the UK.

Colleagues have been pinging up to IT from all sorts of places and have had to use annual leave until their requests are approved. Plus getting a big black mark against them