Would you trust a driver who had only passed their test in a simulator?

[McTav]

Talking to a group of friends the other night, and the conversation turned to Virtual Reality. One of the guys had been at someone's house and tried out their VR headset, doing some driving simulator. He said it was very realistic, and went on to say that he reckons that in 10 years' time all driving tests will be done on VR (instead of an examiner taking you out on the road).

The guys who were there all seemed to think this was a great idea, but I couldn't get my head around it. I wouldn't want someone launched onto the roads who had only demonstrated their ability to drive in a VR simulator.

I can see several advantages:

1. After the initial outlay on machinery, it would be cheaper than employing driving examiners. Presumably you'd still need some instructors to interpret how the person had driven, and for people who can't cope with VR headsets and wanted to do a "real" test, but by and large the computer could do most of the work.

1. Allows them to test your driving in all conditions - the road could be made wet, snowy etc, you could have blinding sunlight, horses or bikes in the road etc, and see how the driver responds. When I did my driving test, it was a November evening at rush hour, chucking it down and the roads were flooded and really busy. My cousin did his at 11am one sunny morning, roads deserted. So it would level the playing field.

1. There would be no examiner bias. When I was at school, we had one examiner at the local test centre who was well-known for giving girls a much tougher test than boys. Literally would not make the boys do any manoeuvres (but would mark the score sheet to say they had done them really well). There are probably much tighter restrictions these days, but presumably the examiner's niece/nephew/best friend's child could still be given an easier ride than others.

1. It would allow motorway driving, which could be tested (though I believe the better option would be to actually let learner drivers on the motorway as long as they're with a qualified instructor who believes they are advanced enough to do it).

I understand all of this, but I still don't think I would be happy for the roads to be filled with drivers who've only been tested in a simulator. But the guys who were with us thought it would be brilliant, and they genuinely believe it will happen in the next decade (they imagine you'd still have to do lessons in an actual car, on the road, but the test would be in a VR simulator).

I can't quite put my finger on why I'd not like it... I think it just wouldn't feel like they'd had a proper test (even though the simulator could test a much wider range of scenarios). Maybe it's because I've never tried VR, so maybe it's a lot more advanced than I imagine.

Would you trust the VR system?

It depends. If the VR is really realistic or not. Though I would rather they have at least some lessons in the real road.
The astronauts go to space after training in all sorts of things, minus the real thing. They do it, and they do it well.
But... I am fed up of machines taking people's jobs, so based on this point, I do not want it.

No, but like you I can’t really articulate why!

How about trusting the pilot at the controls of the plane you are in whose only experience in proper crash landing or certain weather conditions is a simulator?

I wouldn't trust a VR system because you just cannot emulate the same experience as driving an actual car on a real road, with real traffic and real drivers.

Controlling the car would feel completely different. Spacial awareness wouldn't be that important whilst driving in VR either.

It just seems completely unsafe. To my mind, it's comparable to taking a driving test on the car games you get at the arcades!

As an aside, learners can now practice on motorways I believe.

With the advancement of self driving cars it will be likely that in ten years most people won't need to take driving lessons

@SunbathingDragon

How about trusting the pilot at the controls of the plane you are in whose only experience in proper crash landing or certain weather conditions is a simulator?

But this is the thing. Currently we trust pilots to land in any conditions, but they might not have trained in every type of condition. Just as plenty of people pass their driving test without ever driving in the snow, or overtaking a cyclist, or having someone cut them up at a roundabout. You could factor all those into a simulator, and if it's realistic then isn't that better than someone who does a quick test on a nice calm, quiet road and faces no obstacles?

@MushMonster

It depends. If the VR is really realistic or not. Though I would rather they have at least some lessons in the real road. The astronauts go to space after training in all sorts of things, minus the real thing. They do it, and they do it well. But... I am fed up of machines taking people's jobs, so based on this point, I do not want it.

I agree about job losses being a negative, but I imagine they'd still need examiners to keep an eye on things. Also some people can't cope with VR at all, so presumably the "real" test would have to be available as an option as well. Plus, jobs would be created in making and maintaining the machines and software.

@GoldenNCurly

With the advancement of self driving cars it will be likely that in ten years most people won't need to take driving lessons

I thought this as well!

When I first learnt to drive over 20 years ago I did some hours in a driving simulator - I think with the advancements in VR etc something like a simulator with proper controls etc combined with VR type images through the fake windows would work better than a totally VR experience

@TinkersTailor

I wouldn't trust a VR system because you just cannot emulate the same experience as driving an actual car on a real road, with real traffic and real drivers.

Controlling the car would feel completely different. Spacial awareness wouldn't be that important whilst driving in VR either.

It just seems completely unsafe. To my mind, it's comparable to taking a driving test on the car games you get at the arcades!

As an aside, learners can now practice on motorways I believe.

I agree; I think in my head I'm picturing something like the flight simulator in the Krypton Factor! But they said it was incredibly realistic and felt just like driving.

Currently we trust pilots to land in any conditions, but they might not have trained in every type of condition.

They have trained though. They use simulators for their training. That’s my point.

The thing is, you react differently to a simulator. Your brain knows it isn't risky in the slightest. Knowing you're driving an actual 4 wheeled missile down your local high street means that you have to learn to overcome emotions such as fear or anger from road rage. VR just can't capture that.

Over lockdown a lot of the F1 drivers did the e-sports tournaments. They all loved it but said they took greater risks on the simulator as there was no risk of actually getting hurt.

That's why I feel uncomfortable about learners not being on the road. The chances of having an accident that costs money or hurts you/someone acts as a great incentive to take care.

Nope.

No matter how good it is, it can't replace reality and all that goes with it.

But pilots train in a simulator then get in a real plane with an already qualified pilot and carry on the training in a real life setting, they have to clock up loads of flying hours (in real planes) before they qualify.

I don't see how this could ever be possible when you can fail your test for not checking your mirrors consistently or checking your blindspot properly. How would the VR pick this up?

Depends what kind of simulator...

When aeroplane pilots train, they go inside a machine which physically replicates the whole cockpit, and moves, swerves, accelerates, decelerates, to match how they operate the controls. So the simulator feedback is much more than just visual.
A VR headset only provides visual feedback, but driving is a full body experience.

Also, depends what data you feed the simulator. Flight conditions are mostly meteorological events (although I guess they can also simulate technical faults, and incidents involving other aeroplanes). There isn't that much variability in term of environmental conditions.
I find driving is a lot more diverse and random: urban roads, rural roads, motorways... Driving in all weather, including with the sun in your eyes, or a foggy windscreen... and all the various road users you can encounter (including animals), and are actually the hardest part of driving! (driving on empty roads is easy...)

Finally... A driving test should also test the driver's emotions in real conditions. A simulator might be OK for training, but at the end of the day, it is risk free, whereas driving on a road isn't. A licensed driver must prove they can handle that additional pressure.
(Similarly... although pilots do train in simulators, I don't think you'd be given a license based on simulator tests only? You need to clock a certain amount of hours in an actual plane)

Re: full body experience and driving... For instance, I use both my ears and body (feeling the vibration and acceleration/deceleration) to decide when to shift gears on a manual car. Purely audio visual VR would be useless for that, you need proper haptic feedback.
Also, don't you feel with your whole body how your brakes operate on different surfaces? There must be tons of other examples... To me the road under my wheels is something I can feel, and informs the way I drive.

But pilots train in a simulator then get in a real plane with an already qualified pilot and carry on the training in a real life setting, they have to clock up loads of flying hours (in real planes) before they qualify.

True....AFAIK you don't go from zero hours to a Private Pilots Licence (yet) just by using a simulator.."real" hours are required.

OTOH in the commercial flying world a pilot having already got a professional licence and hundreds if not thousands of flying hours in a real aircraft may possibly convert to a new type solely in a simulator. Those machines are multi multi million pound, all singing, all dancing (almost literally) bits of kit that replicate all the visual and just as importantly almost all the physiological effects of flying (people have been known to get airsick in them) - I'm not sure your local driving school will be able to afford similar..

Just to address the point about that pilots might not have trained in every permutation of imaginable weather condition in the simulator - true, but they will have been trained and checked out to the aircraft limits, in terms of e.g. maximum Crosswinds and low visibility, turbulence, wind shear etc..so they will have been trained to cope with the worse case and the real world tends to generally present less of a challenge most days.

Also just adding a few things...

For anyone who has been on a cruise you should know that the captain and crew will have also been trained in some circumstances using a ship simulator.

In Mexico they don't even have a test...they just purchase their license 🤣

It would be handy for where I live. We have no motorways and no round abouts at all. So there's never any practice on them. Not part of the tests either.

If they do - then gaining a driving licence will become harder - and a lot more expensive, of course.
Alongside the theory, you'll do a simulator test to test your worthiness to be allowed to drive on the road prior to sticking L plates on.
Will cost a lot more of course!

I can see it becoming an extra part of the test - theory, VR, road test.

No.
Pilots are sensible individuals who go through months of intensive training to fly.
I wouldn't want the local boy racers passing only a virtual driving lesson.