If you had two weeks off work for stress...

[Petronas]

When would you be expected to let your employer know whether you were going back after the two weeks? On the last day of your time off or the first day of your return?

Mine would assume I was back on the day stated unless they've heard otherwise from me. I would only need to inform them if the absence had been extended.

I think the assumption was that I would be back. I did return after my sick note expired.

If I got signed off longer I would let them know as soon as I got the new note.

When I have been off sick for whatever reason I have always let them know as soon as possible. There is no benefit in withholding the information, particularly if they need to get/cancel cover.

We have heard nothing from our employee - we've had to pay to get a contractor in and he is getting paid full pay. We are a small business and admittedly haven't much experience in dealing with this kind of thing.
We are reluctant to get in touch as he was signed off with stress from work, so don't want to hassle him. We were really not aware that he was suffering from stress - his quality of work was consistently of very high quality, we've seen him on daily zoom calls, the other employees were clueless as well (he's decided to be very open about how he's feeling), we feel pretty bad about it. When he told us - we immediately told him to take time off - removed all responsibility from him and 3 days later he got a sick note from his GP taking a further 2 weeks off.
He is due back on Monday but will be aware we've had to organise and pay for a contractor to continue his work - it would be good for us to let the contractor know whether he was or wasn't needed, I suppose it's not a great sign - he'd normally be more thoughtful about stuff like this.

I suppose it's not a great sign - he'd normally be more thoughtful about stuff like this.

He's ill. Your staffing issues are not his priority at the moment. It may be that he's not ready to come back but can't get to speak to his GP, and he's panicking because he can't give you an update. Or he may be trying to force himself to come back but he really doesn't know how he'll be until the day. Unfortunately that's the nature of mental illness.

Going forwards, you need to find a better balance of keeping in touch with him, it's not good practice to completely cut contact! So if he (or anyone else) says they'll be off for two weeks, suggest a chat (zoom/ phone/ in a cafe) after ten days, to see how they're getting on and if there's anything you can do to support them in getting better and working towards returning to work. Then you both know where you stand.

I would tell my employer the week before if I was not going to return, though i would also tell them i was ready to come back too to ensure they were prepared. But I'd definitely say if I was not coming back.

He is due back on Monday but will be aware we've had to organise and pay for a contractor to continue his work - it would be good for us to let the contractor know whether he was or wasn't needed, I suppose it's not a great sign - he'd normally be more thoughtful about stuff like this.

He might have to wait until Monday to speak to his GP re another sick line though. That's the unfortunate thing about being off, you don't know if the GP will support further time off and you can't usually get a new line until you need one.

@ChaChaCha2012

I suppose it's not a great sign - he'd normally be more thoughtful about stuff like this.

He's ill. Your staffing issues are not his priority at the moment. It may be that he's not ready to come back but can't get to speak to his GP, and he's panicking because he can't give you an update. Or he may be trying to force himself to come back but he really doesn't know how he'll be until the day. Unfortunately that's the nature of mental illness.

Going forwards, you need to find a better balance of keeping in touch with him, it's not good practice to completely cut contact! So if he (or anyone else) says they'll be off for two weeks, suggest a chat (zoom/ phone/ in a cafe) after ten days, to see how they're getting on and if there's anything you can do to support them in getting better and working towards returning to work. Then you both know where you stand.

If he's still not well - I wouldn't expect him to be thinking about our staffing issues and that's why I suspect he won't be back on Monday. If he was well resourcing the project would be part of his job. We don't want him to feel at all forced to come back to work. We didn't get in touch because we were trying to give him a complete break from work and phoning him would feeling like hassling him about his return. It seems your damned if you do and damned if you don't!

I do agree that in this situation organising a catch up call near to the end of the planned time off Is good practice. I would suggest calling before Monday to check in. He may be feeling a bit cut off now.

The advice from our HR consultants (you should get one!) is that we should keep in touch with all absent staff by a means agreed with them and at "reasonable" frequency, also agreed with them.

If it's "only" 2 weeks I would leave it at that but have a proper rtw meeting to see what we can do to help on their return. If it goes beyond 2 weeks, I'd be referring to OH and keeping very close to the situation. It's important not to let it drift without resolving the underlying issue and/or implementing long term sickness absence procedures.

With regard to the expiry of the current certificate I think they should let you know by the day before they are due back but it would be reasonable for you to contact them to find out how they are and if they expect to be returning at the end of the current certificate.

We plan to call him tomorrow evening because we don't want to interrupt his weekend - but are you suggesting that this might be interpreted as us not caring?
We are planning on taking some courses in the Autumn (nothing available immediately) to clue ourselves up a bit more on Mental Health at work.

I don't think you should call him. He'll be starting a thread about being harassed.
His sick note expired on Friday, presumably, so he should have sorted out a new one and informed you one way or the other.
When I've asked our HR about this (it's happened a couple of times) I've been told not to contact the person, and to presume they are coming in but put something in place in case they don't.
I don't think you should tie yourself in knots worrying about your approach because it's stress he's off with. He's employed to do a job and he knows what the protocol is for sick leave. So does his GP etc.

@ScorpioSphinxInACalicoDress

I don't think you should call him. He'll be starting a thread about being harassed. His sick note expired on Friday, presumably, so he should have sorted out a new one and informed you one way or the other. When I've asked our HR about this (it's happened a couple of times) I've been told not to contact the person, and to presume they are coming in but put something in place in case they don't. I don't think you should tie yourself in knots worrying about your approach because it's stress he's off with. He's employed to do a job and he knows what the protocol is for sick leave. So does his GP etc.

Thanks - we are tying ourselves in knots a bit because we didn't spot it - his job is not more stressful than usual, he was in touch on a daily basis about his work, dh did his job last week as well as his own while we organised a replacement, we have a genuinely good relationship with him...but it's been a long time since we saw him in person. He's very anxious about catching Covid - that's the only thing we have picked up, but then he's not the only one.

FWIW, I think businesses will see a lot of this in the coming weeks.

Even people who think they are enjoying wfh will enjoy it less as the nights draw in and opportunities for "safe" socialising reduce.

People who have been worried about covid all through will find it harder and harder as restrictions are relaxed and other people take it less seriously.

It is a hard call.
And harder when as a small business you have to make that call yourself.
Looking at threads on here though, there are often "I'm off sick should I let work know when I'm going back" to which the answer is always yes! But also "my employer contacted me to find out when I'm going back" which get the answer that the employer is U!

Have a look at the HSE website at their pages about stress. it might be worth doing a stress risk assessment with him when he is back, to help identify the actual issues so you can put an action plan in place. If his absence becomes more prolonged I definitely recommend you contact him and arrange to meet with him so he can discuss with you what the perceived issues are so you can address them with him. if that doesn't work you could consider referring him to an occupational health service for independent advice on his fitness for work. Hope all goes well .

@FunTimes2020

Have a look at the HSE website at their pages about stress. it might be worth doing a stress risk assessment with him when he is back, to help identify the actual issues so you can put an action plan in place. If his absence becomes more prolonged I definitely recommend you contact him and arrange to meet with him so he can discuss with you what the perceived issues are so you can address them with him. if that doesn't work you could consider referring him to an occupational health service for independent advice on his fitness for work. Hope all goes well .

Thank you, that's really helpful.

His job might not be the cause of his stress. All kinds of things can contribute. I was off after relationship breakdown. My friend was off for months due to depression, she just suddenly found herself unable to cope with all of the things in her life.

So I wouldn't compare him to others with the same job and wonder why he is stressed.

I wouldnt call him on a sunday night if he is due back monday. You may as well wait until monday morning. Plan in time to welcome him back, see how he is feeling about his return, see if theres anything you can do to help him. And dont mention the contractor as he may interpret it as being an inconvenience to you. Give him some easy stuff to focus on for his first week and quickly check in with him at the end of his first day "it's great to see you back, hope it's gone ok for you, enjoy your evening."

@LittleHootie

His job might not be the cause of his stress. All kinds of things can contribute. I was off after relationship breakdown. My friend was off for months due to depression, she just suddenly found herself unable to cope with all of the things in her life.

So I wouldn't compare him to others with the same job and wonder why he is stressed.

I wouldnt call him on a sunday night if he is due back monday. You may as well wait until monday morning. Plan in time to welcome him back, see how he is feeling about his return, see if theres anything you can do to help him. And dont mention the contractor as he may interpret it as being an inconvenience to you. Give him some easy stuff to focus on for his first week and quickly check in with him at the end of his first day "it's great to see you back, hope it's gone ok for you, enjoy your evening."

It's tricky because we all work from home atm, he's quite senior so we wouldn't normally manage his work, limiting him to light duties would be potentially overstepping. Whether work is the source of his issues at the moment we can't tell, he thinks it is.

I do know that the situation over the last few months has reignited many mental health difficulties and many more people are suffering than was previously the case.

The trouble is, you can hide it and things appear as they usually are and thrn suddenly it all falls apart. In the midst of a difficult episode, your employee might only be able to think of how he is feeling and not of the impact his absence has on your business.

I say this not as a criticism, but an attempt to explain how all consuming mental ill health can be. I think you might have to be patient and wait to see whether he returns on Monday. It’s such a fine line between showing care and concern and being perceived as badgering.

@Foxyloxy1plus1

I do know that the situation over the last few months has reignited many mental health difficulties and many more people are suffering than was previously the case.

The trouble is, you can hide it and things appear as they usually are and thrn suddenly it all falls apart. In the midst of a difficult episode, your employee might only be able to think of how he is feeling and not of the impact his absence has on your business.

I say this not as a criticism, but an attempt to explain how all consuming mental ill health can be. I think you might have to be patient and wait to see whether he returns on Monday. It’s such a fine line between showing care and concern and being perceived as badgering.

We certainly do not want to badger him - but it is interesting how in this thread we have been told we are not caring enough by not calling him to risk badgering him by calling before Monday. It's very hard to get this right and that is what we are trying hard to do. He know that we were putting someone in his place so he wouldn't worry about the job getting done - because that is what he did constantly for the first three days he had been off. He would normally care about the impact that this having on our bottom line because he is that kind of person, always concerned about the budget - we have reassured him that we are fine financially for this year, that's our stress to deal with.

We just spoke him (he called) he's been signed off for a further two weeks, he's not very well at all.

@Petronas it's ok when he calls to mutually agree check in points. Which, if he's signed off for 2 weeks may be good to suggest the Wednesday before he's due back.
The focus should be on supporting him back to work. Discuss the potential for a phased return so he knows that is an option.
Let him know when he is ready you can come up with an action plan to support him returning to work.
You are allowed to ask how work has stressed him so you can focus support in those areas. If the stress is due to personal life as opposed to work you could suggest something like flexible working (if he's caring for a sick relative for example)
It's great he's getting the support of his doctor but NHS support is overstretched for mental illness, if you don't have an EAP in place it may be worth considering, we found perkbox was the most cost effective for us as a small organisation which includes EAP as well as other discount based benefits.

@AmIAWeed We had talked about getting access to a mental health support-line will look into your recommendations. We agreed to talk to him again on Friday.
Always something new to learn when starting up a business!

I was signed off for 6 weeks a few years ago, 2 weeks at a time. Each note ran ended on Friday and my doctor told me to see him on the next Monday to be assessed again. That meant I couldn’t let my employer know til mid morning on the Monday I was due back. Maybe his doctor has told him the same. I did keep in touch with my employer though so she knew I still wasn’t well and was going back to my doctor. Mine was a physical illness though, I think you definitely have to be more careful as an employer with mental health health issues. I imagine it’s a nightmare as an employer, you can care deeply about your employees but you still have to keep your business running.