My teen can't sleep

[Kidcantsleep]

Name changed because I talk about this irl all the time, I must bore my friends senseless.

My 13 yr old can't get to sleep at night. He's always struggled to switch off and get to sleep, has done for years. He's regularly still awake well past midnight, 1am. His phone is switched off in good time, TV switched off, but he's the sort of kid who can entertain himself in an empty room. He'll read by the light from the street lamp, will write stories in the dark, build lego silently in the dark then enjoy looking at his créations in the morning to see if he picked the right colour of bricks in the semi darkness of his room.

We've tried making him sleep in a different room away from all his distractions of toys, I've sat outside his door for nights on end to make sure he doesn't turn his light back on, I've let him stay awake for hours in the hope that he'll be so tired he'll shock his body clock back into some sort of normal pattern.

He's back at school now and on the verge of tears most mornings when he has to get up, but is not managing to sleep any earlier.

So we're going to have a last push at trying to fix this ourselves then we're going to contact the gp. His phone is going away at 8pm, all screens off at 8pm. Which seems ridiculously early for a 13 Yr old but its got to be worth a try.

I've been browsing relaxing pillow sprays and room scents, has anyone found one which actually works? We've tried listening to relaxing podcasts, again does anyone have any recommendations? Herbal sleep potions that don't make you feel mega dopey the next day? I'm a bit nervous about sleeping pills for teenagers though.

Anything else anyone could recommend? This is our last attempt to break this unhealthy cycle before looking for proper medical help.

And has anyone ever taken their teenager to the doctor because they can't get to sleep? It feels like a bit of an over reaction but his lack of sleep is affecting his daily life now.

I’m interested in this too, my boy is similar.

We are currently reading ‘What to do when you dread your bed’ although it is targeted a little young.

Do you find that his wake up time/amount of time spent outside/exercise have much impact on his sleep time?

No back-lit screens for an hour before bed is good. Other things that help are having something filling half an hour before bed (like a milky drink) and taking a warm shower or bath before bed. A cooler bedroom is better for sleep too.

I would suggest teaching him some breathing exercises or relaxation exercises for getting to sleep (such as square breathing or progressive muscle relaxation - you can have audios to help with these).

It would be worth keeping a sleep diary for a week before going to a gp to see how bad his sleep really is (record when he gets up and whether he naps during the day, and whether he has been struggling with tiredness during the day). Melatonin can be helpful for some teenagers, but it isnt usually given until other non-medical advice has been tried.

Sleep sprays are just placebo, although work for some due to the placebo effect. If you do speak t the GP I would talk to them about melatonin, it might help bring his sleep pattern forward

Have a google of Delayed Sleep Wake Phase Disorder (DSWPD), this is pretty common in teens triggered by puberty. Firstly its good to remember that your DS is probably not able to help this, it's not him behaving badly and secondly it sounds like you are pretty hung up on this and it's clearly causing you stress (talking about it a lot to your friends, sitting for hours outside his door etc). I would definitely recommend having a chat with your doctor, for both of you, it sounds like you could also do with some help coping with this situation?

How much sleep is he getting?
Is he healthy?
I have always struggled with sleep and so does my oldest. Mine both go to bed in good time but take hours to go to sleep.
Absolutely go to the gp and yes, take a diary/notes.
I know of a child who is 7 who literally doesn't sleep without meds. Sometimes its necessary.
I dont suppose lockdown has helped anyones routine regarding this.

My friend's teen cannot sleep, he is on amitryptaline from the GP which has been reviewed by a consultant. One tiny 10mg tablet at bedtime. (It's acts as a muscle relaxant as at low doses 10-40mg in adults it is used for neurological pain that is preventing sleep at night or irritable bladders, and at higher doses 50-200mg was used as an old fashioned anti depressant -it makes you drowsy)

I think your son needs to be evaluated at a sleep clinic, but in the meantime I wouldn't have him listen to podcasts because they engage the brain too much. Try white noise like rain or thunderstorms, blackout curtains, and keeping his room as cool as possible.

Any chance introducing a daily run/walk/bike if not already doing that? Decrease sugar, and include more of his favourite high protein and veg foods at every meal and for snacks , if not already doing that? Magnesium supplement.

If you’re looking for products to try, it might be worth giving these two a go:

uk.lush.com/products/body-lotions/sleepy

Cherry Good Night Soothing Cherry Juice Drink 1L www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07FXVNNZG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_D7lqFbW3Z719G?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Thanks for your comments.
The time he wakes up and the amount of exercise or fresh air he has doesn't massively affect when he goes to sleep. He'll still be awake till late.

He is healthy enough but his concentration is not great much of the time.

He doesn't nap during the day, although he has been known to nod off during a long car journey.

Ive tried to keep a sleep diary but I'm usually asleep before him. I know he's up till late though because he's always awake if I get up to the toilet.

I don't think he thinks he has a problem. I think he's so used to being chronically tired he doesn't know any different. But I think he would notice a difference if got enough sleep and then he might be motivated to take responsibility for good sleep habits.

Ive had a really quick Google of DSWPD and that does sound like him. He's been this way for years though but it does say it can start earlier. I'm going to read a bit more about that.

My nephew had sleep anxiety and melatonin worked. I'd stop phones and tv earlier than 8pm and stick to books instead.