Has everyone just given up on social distancing?

[Esbm2015]

It certainly feels that way and is making me very anxious and frustrated.

I’ve been following the rules with my friends when I have seen them and have been working from home.

This morning on a work call many of my London based colleagues attitude was basically that I was being too sensible and that i need to get over my concerns about travelling into the city on the tube and train as there’s nothing to worry about. I still don’t feel comfortable taking an hour long journey by train and bit more by tube - esp as trains were so unreliable and unclean pre-Covid and of what I’ve seen many on board are not wearing masks etc.

Also they were happy to say they are not SD at all with friends and family, just strangers. Many have shared pictures of themselves on social media with no SD at all hugging etc.

I just find it very frustrating - plus I didn’t get chance to say that actually I don’t really care about going back into London for the foreseeable. I’m having a great time where I live right now, even while sticking to the rules and seeing friends. But I was made to feel ‘uncool’ and anxious that am still trying to follow the rules and care about SD!!!! I’m just frustrated at working with people who have such views that they feel they can now do as they wish and change the rules as they see fit! End of rant!

@latticechaos I expect people to risk assess and take responsibility for themselves like we always have.

what do you expect to happen if there is never a vaccine?

because according to your friend on here there is no proof we can even get immunity so..

I wear a mask. I SD when in public and from strangers. I've not been to big meet ups etc.

But I have been on holiday abroad - SD throughout.

I've eaten out and been to the local pub - again with SDing inc at least 1m between us and our friends.

I've had friends visit - the teens don't really SD but the adults did. But we also didn't bring our own mugs etc.

I've visited close family and had family visit but didn't SD.

I've been to family funerals (it's been a dreadful time with three close relatives dying since lockdown) and the last one had a gathering after. I suspect the numbers exceeded that they should have. I didn't organise it or know about it until after the service. I did go but me and my immediate close family (parents and siblings plus nephew) SDed from the other groups.

In September I will be back at work with no SD and masks. I will be teaching 60 children a day, 270 over the week, over ten different rooms with limited restrictions. I will try to SD from my colleagues and may wear a mask in some areas if I feel uncomfortable.

I'm clinically vulnerable and was very careful until July and then started to be a bit more relaxed and go out more since. But carefully on the whole.

[quote Strawberrypip]@latticechaos I expect people to risk assess and take responsibility for themselves like we always have.

what do you expect to happen if there is never a vaccine?[/quote]
I hope there will be proper treatment options. That would change the whole situation.

At only six months in, I personally feel able to SD through this winter. By Easter we will know a lot more.

I am.not especially impressed with the idea of individual risk assessment for a society-wide problem, but it is a challenge for the UK to deal with this.

I mean, tbh, we should have slapped on masks back in February, but we weren't a) prepared nationally b) keen as a society.

I do think the response of UK, US, Russia and Brazil are an interesting group. Lots of 'personal risk assessment' 'commonsense' 'got to live with it' etc. Lots of deaths.

My 18y wears a mask and SD with people she doesn't know. However she hasn't been SD with her boyfriend for a while. It was her birthday and her grandad died about three weeks into lockdown and we let her meet him then as she really needed someone other than us at that time. Then they had a while not meeting up and SD. As soon as they were allowed to meet up outdoors they did and I am pretty sure they wouldn't have been SDing at all from that point. Since the summer we havent expected them to at all and we've allowed him to stay over etc, plus they've been away together.

It's been going on far too long to expect them not to be within touching distance of one another!

It’s very likely there will be vaccines In a year or so that is at least 60% effective. They were close to having a vaccine for SARS before this, and that’s pretty similar. Huge research efforts are going into vaccine development and initial results are promising. I think it’s unlikely we will need to socially distance indefinitely - just till then.

@Aragog

My 18y wears a mask and SD with people she doesn't know. However she hasn't been SD with her boyfriend for a while. It was her birthday and her grandad died about three weeks into lockdown and we let her meet him then as she really needed someone other than us at that time. Then they had a while not meeting up and SD. As soon as they were allowed to meet up outdoors they did and I am pretty sure they wouldn't have been SDing at all from that point. Since the summer we havent expected them to at all and we've allowed him to stay over etc, plus they've been away together.

It's been going on far too long to expect them not to be within touching distance of one another!

This I agree is not sustainable, people in a relationship.

My grandfather is dying and has said he would rather see his family than shield for the last three months of his life

I'm sorry to hear about your grandad. It's an awful time to be going through this.

My nana said the same though at that point we had no idea she was ill or would die. She was early 90s and had had enough of being isolated. Family was everything to her and before lockdown some parts of the family had a family day every week.

So in July they restarted it with fewer people and she went. On the second family day she died whilst there. Moments before she was laughing and smiling and enjoying a drink with her family. She didn't wake up again. We ( and she) didn't know but she'd had a bleed in the brain for the past few months so it was just a waiting game and could have happened at any time.

Whilst distressing for those who were there we are so grateful she went when she was happy and with family, and not when she was isolated and in her own, with just the odd SDed visitor beforehand.

This was my third relative to die during lockdown and the thought that she was with her family beforehand is so comforting. My other nana died alone in hospital the month before. My FIL died in a hospice two months previous though fortunately they managed to allow mil, Dh and bil in at the time.

I think it’s unlikely we will need to socially distance indefinitely - just till then.

Sorry but I'm not prepared to do it for that long. Not with family and close friends anyway. Strangers, yes.

I think it’s unlikely we will need to socially distance indefinitely - just till then.

We can't expect close family who you don't live with to have no physical contact for that long.

I can't expect my 18y Dd to not be able to touch her boyfriend I definitely. It's damaging to have no physically contact with the people you love.

@Egghead68

It’s very likely there will be vaccines In a year or so that is at least 60% effective. They were close to having a vaccine for SARS before this, and that’s pretty similar. Huge research efforts are going into vaccine development and initial results are promising. I think it’s unlikely we will need to socially distance indefinitely - just till then.

And if the vaccine doesn't work? Or the virus mutates again and they have to find another vaccine? Or the trials aren't successful for some reason? What it takes three or five years for a successful vaccine to be rolled out? Do you really expect people to be happy not hugging their parents or grandparents or friends until then?

It's not normal for humans to spend months of their lives without human contact. In fact, overall, it's extremely detrimental to their mental health. We're meant to hug and kiss each other, spend time together, go out, socialise and have fun without maintaining some arbitrary distance between ourselves.

We cannot (as a country) afford another lockdown, and in order to keep the economy moving we need to start getting back to normal. We need to re-open theatres, gigs, festivals and get things moving again. Living like this is not only unnatural but it's also completely unsustainable in terms of keeping the economy afloat.

I was being too sensible

This made me smile. You can never be too sensible. Ignore everyone else and do what YOU feel comfortable doing.

tbh, I agree that almost everyone seems to have given up on SD. About half the people are wearing masks. No idea about handwashing, although I appear to be almost the only person using hand gel when out. It's likely to make Autumn and Winter head into a second wave.

It's damaging to have no physically contact with the people you love.

It's not great, but doable. It's certainly doable for a short period e.g. a year, when there is a wide variety of technology options and when the alternative is more deaths.

The people I mix with are prepared to take the risk and that's up to them.

And the people they mix with? How utterly selfish.

@Jaxhog

It's damaging to have no physically contact with the people you love.

It's not great, but doable. It's certainly doable for a short period e.g. a year, when there is a wide variety of technology options and when the alternative is more deaths.

That depends entirely on the state of your mental health.

It's simply not correct to make a blanket statement of "it's doable for a year". It may well be if you are in a happy relationship, have no money troubles and have a supportive bubble that can help you and provide things like childcare or a shoulder to cry on.

If, for example, you're a single parent with disabled children, or you live alone and struggle with depression or anxiety or agoraphobia, then not being able to hug your friends or family for months on end could be the thing that tips you over the edge.

I read an article recently about a lady who killed her severely disabled son over lockdown because she got absolutely no help from anyone and was left to do it all on her own, 24/7, for several months.

we need to start getting back to normal. We need to re-open theatres, gigs, festivals and get things moving again

As I said upthread, 'back to normal' is a phrase.

The virus will be thrilled to get back to normal, that's the problem. I don't like SD, I just don't understand how the virus doesn't spread.

And if the vaccine doesn't work? Or the virus mutates again and they have to find another vaccine? Or the trials aren't successful for some reason? What it takes three or five years for a successful vaccine to be rolled out?

1. It’s not one vaccine. Many, many vaccines are being developed. Early signs are promising. They are not starting from scratch - some of the work is building on older SARS vaccine work. The odds that all of them would fail seem slim.
2. There’s no evolutionary pressure on the virus to mutate. It’s doing fine as it is. However if it mutates significantly, vaccines would have to change every year, like the flu vaccine.
3. Three to five years to be rolled out - this is very unlikely. Plans are already being put in place to manufacture and roll it out as quickly as possible, prioritising the clinically vulnerable and health and social care workers first.

Things need get back to normal
And people need stop using it as excuse to stay off work and not send their kids to school
Ridiculous how many people listen to the government and don't use their own minds to make choices
Sen kids school
Go to work
Get over it

Hilarious that we don’t understand numbers? I do. I also understand how exponential growth works and how the impact of DD etc has slowed transmission to manageable rates.

Life can open up a bit if people do the bare minimum of hand washing, SD and masks. That’s the point, we can start going back to normal because of those things.

I can’t understand people bring so selfish. Also, you may not be high risk for dying yourself but there is enough evidence to suggest even mild cases have long term impacts on many,

@Jaxhog

It's damaging to have no physically contact with the people you love.

It's not great, but doable. It's certainly doable for a short period e.g. a year, when there is a wide variety of technology options and when the alternative is more deaths.

Your certainty is grotesquely arrogant and misplaced. As if you can possibly make that call for everyone.

If you want to say that the suffering this would cause is the lesser of two evils, you can do that without deluding yourself that you're remotely qualified to make blanket statements about what's doable.

Not DD. SD.

Jaxhog - 6 months is a heck of a long time when you're 18, let alone a year. And after suffering close family losses, missed celebrations with being 18 and finishing school, the debacle of exams, etc I just think we have to put mental health ahead sometimes especially when their personal risk is so reduced. As said, I'm clinically vulnerable but we have still allowed DD's boyfriend to come here and to stay over. It wasn't an easy decision and dd didn't push it but we could see her becoming more and more withdrawn and upset in herself, something we had never seen with her before.

With my nana it was all she craved - being with her family. And I don't care that she, and the family she was with at the time, broke the rules and met up together. She died happy rather than alone isolated and sad.

@BonnieMcflurry

Things need get back to normal And people need stop using it as excuse to stay off work and not send their kids to school Ridiculous how many people listen to the government and don't use their own minds to make choices Sen kids school Go to work Get over it

This is like covid denial bingo!

My workplace don't want me in the office but I'll tell them to get over it

'ridiculous how many people listen to the government'

I just remember many have criticised how we haven't done enough to save lives or didn't go into lockdown soon enough...

I wonder what people's thoughts would have been if from the word go Boris would have said we're just going to go on as normal and basically anyone who does get Covid-19 or dies from it.... oh well that's just what will have to happen until there is a vaccine or it goes away or whatever.

That just seems to be the attitude now though... we've forgot or just don't care about why we need to social distance and the underlying issue of transmission fuelling it for longer....

I'm still seeing family and friends and we're still having a great time - just social distancing and following the rules which i hope will help to curb the virus spreading.

Was just listening to a Q&A with Professor John Bell. He said it’s going to be a rough winter with a second wave mixed with flu. However he thinks that by Spring next year things will be looking much much better with a vaccine (albeit only partially effective) and better treatment options, particularly “neutralising monoclonal antibodies” (he said that one from camels is particularly promising).