Bedtime driving me insane-4 year old.

[Snottymonkey]

I'm actually getting very down about the bedtime situation with my 4 and 2 year old and I'd appreciate any advice because we can't go on like this.
My 4 year old daughter's bedtime takes on average 2 hours and the 2 year old a similar amount of time. We try to have them upstairs by around 7, story then bed. Its rare the 4 year old is asleep before 9, usually closer to 10. Dh and I get one each so thats our evening, laying on the floor next to their beds till tbey sleep. She will be awake at 6am or thereabouts no matter what time she goes to sleep. This is standard every night no matter how tired she is.
The 4 year old starting asking for her tablet before bed initially to listen to audio book storybut this has graduated to her playing on it for 20 mins or so and screaming when I take.it away. I know I need to stop.her having it altogether.
Once the distraction of the tablet is gone she plays up. She can climb over stairgate so no point and she runs around disturbing her sister, goes into our bedroom goes through my makeup, smears it on the wall/mirrors. So one of has to stay up there to stop her having free run of upstairs and destrying things. She wants to do colouring or sticker book before sleep so I let her once or twice and left her but she has drawn over all her furniture anxd stickers everywhere on walls. Took those away so she has torn strips of the wallpaper off the wall. Her room looks like a squat. I take toys away, she laughs.
If i leave her she screams at the top of the stairs or goes in to wake her sister.
She starts school next month. I actually think I need to seriously take charge as her beha viour has deteriorated so much in the last few months. She behaves like an angel at childcare and for her grandparents. It is just at home she's like this. I'm ashamed to say I lose my rag eventually and just end up shouting at her to get in bed. One of us has to stay with the 2 year old until she sĺeeps or she screams and cries blue murder. On the rare occasion I and Dh have done bedtime alone it has been chaos and it has been past 10 before they fall asleep exhausted having spent the evening running around screaming.
I am failing so badly.

i'd talk to her and explain that new routine
dinner, bath/shower, then 30 mins on tablet. Set timer.
Then story, followed by cuddle. If you have an Alexa or similar, play relaxing music similar (we have a snooze playlist)

then after 30 mins of cuddles leave room

if she's good and stays down,then in morning get more tablet time

I'm sure most of mumsnet will scream about no screen time or bribing, but they need to get with real world.

Dh and I get one each so thats our evening, laying on the floor next to their beds till tbey sleep.

So how is she running around wrecking stuff if you're staying with her?

Change your mindset and write off all evenings for the near future. You have young kids...it happens.

Why the audiobook? Can't you read to her instead? Get her to read/describe the pictures to you first. Turn the lights off, play some music on your phone, read something on a dark screen. Answer anything with "its bed time, go to sleep."

Does she sleep in the afternoon? Eat lots of sweets in the evening?
You definitely have to tackle the ipad issue - blue light is not good for her. Read her a story (once she goes to school you will have to do lots of reading together anyway), no ipad, snuggle up to her, dim the lights, and maybe listen to a sleep story (I recommend the children sleep story on calm app). The ipad will not make her more tired, only her agitated. Try giving her ipad from 6.30 until 7pm then start bedtime with goal that she sleeps by 8pm.

You have to start now - she will be shattered at school if she doesn’t get enough sleep. Sounds to me like she is overtired and you are not putting up clear boundaries.

It must be hard with 2
I have 1 dc. Also 4

She is asleep at 8.30 each night which some may say is a bit late but it works for us

Could a 7pm bedtime start of routine be too early? I know myself if i go to bed too early ill just toss and turn and feel restless

Could the 4yo have a bit more play/ sit and watch a littl3 movie with you on the couch then bed at 8?

Thats what we do each night. 6.30-bath and play- 7/7.30 a little bit of TV with me or dad and supper
8 into bed dimmed lights 2/3books
Lights out and I either sing a few songs or tell her another story while having a cuddle. 10 15min shes asleep

Now you have a 2yo in the mix... so maybe while child 1 is having the tv time the other parent is in with child 2 doing the reading/singing/cuddles around 7.30?

I think you need to push your start time back

Actually current thinking would be to come off iPad and hour before bed. Keep things calm and low lit (harder in summer) but go up to bedroom curtains shut. Bath them if they aren’t the sort to get riled up in the bath then through to bedroom and pyjamas. They may both still have milk (do not sweat sippy cups or bottles at these ages but clean teeth after) and they both get to pick a couple of stories each. Or younger goes to bed slightly earlier.

Put them in bed and lights out and then everytime they sit up lay them back down and say night night. Really go for it for a month.

Get them out in the daylight everyday and make sure they have eaten by about 5/5.30.

You will get there.

Had 3 under 5 similar age gaps and pre phones becoming so ubiquitous. Did let them watch telly do let them have screens as teens (whole other nightmare) but they are known to be causing rise of sleep disorders. And it’s not working with your little one.