Response from school re swimming.

[BefuddledAsAFish]

I don't trust the school so I don't know if my is over-reacting.

DS has ASD, dyspraxia, maybe adhd and is very socially behind his peers. He is desperate to have friends, no one wants to be friends with him. So when they were playing on a climbing frame during a PE lesson and a group of kids told him to jump down, he did. And hurt himself. It seems two of the sportier kids also jumped and did not hurt themselves. Of course DS was then upset as he was hurt and it didn't do anything towards making them friends with him...

Now we have the issue of school swimming lessons. 26 9-10 year olds will be going to the pool in the next town. There will be a proper swimming teacher and the class teacher (B).

DS cannot swim. He loves playing in the water, not afraid whatsoever, but does not have enough coordination to swim. I do not take both my Dc in the water alone as DS needs all my support (quite literally). He also panics when he is out of his depth.

His Ta will not be there are she is teaching in another class when they will go. I've asked what depth the pool will be but no one can tell me. There is a genuine reason for this as it's just been renovated and none of the teachers have been there yet.

The "head" class teacher A has just emailed me to say that DS should go along and decide with B and the swim teacher which parts he can join in with and where he should stay in the pool. She has also said that as B is there in a supervisory capacity he can keep a close eye on DS.

My initial reaction is along the lines of WTF but as I said, my opinion of the school is currently not the highest it's ever been.

Can you contact the pool direct to find out the depth of the water?

No, because I know they've installed a moveable floor. So it will depend on the swim teacher. I don't know if it's the whole pool or part, that I can find out tomorrow and my DC actually have their swimming lessons there.

I would trust the swim teacher, learning to swim is a good skill and having dyapraxia doesn,t mean he can,t lern but it may mean he needs more support. I expect they will be grouped into levels of ability or given tasks depending on ability. I would trust the school with this one.

There will be more than one non swimmer in the class, it's quite common when they go for their swimming lessons as part of PE to find a big mix of ability. This isn't something that would worry me, they won't be leaving any child alone and how your DS is with you and his sibling is entirely different to how he will be in a structured environment.

So as another parent you would be happy with effectively one swimming teacher supervising 25 children? Whilst B keeps an eye on my DS?

how your DS is with you and his sibling is entirely different to how he will be in a structured environment.

That is true. It it doesn't change the fact that he cannot physically swim.

Nor that in any standard swimming group he has been in we have been asked not to come back (8-10 kids per teacher).

I feel your concerns. My DD is autistic and coordination for swimming was hard. 2 years in the first stage and no developments (after a year they changed their teaching plan and staff so thought we would stick at it). She just liked splashing around with the toddlers in her group. This was a few years ago.

Could you look into 121 sessions? She did a few before lockdown and I could see her really trying. Not much younger than your DS so if you can afford it I would strongly suggest it.

I don't understand what the issue is? You're saying that they're encouraging DS to go and to only do what he's comfortable with, with the support of his teacher?

They won't have 26 kids in the pool with one teacher. If my school swimming lessons are anything to go by, it'll be 2 kids swimming whilst 24 other kids sit shivering on the side waiting their turn.

Are you sure there's only one swimming teacher? Or do they mean one per group. Our lessons are non/low ability swimmers, moderate ability and advanced swimmers. Each has a separate part of the pool and a separate teacher.

@BefuddledAsAFish

So as another parent you would be happy with effectively one swimming teacher supervising 25 children? Whilst B keeps an eye on my DS?

This isn't going to happen. There are strict ratios and 1:25 is t anywhere close.

Do you have an EHCP for him? If he has a full-time TA this should surely cover his swimming lessons?

School swimming lessons are a joke. I wouldn't worry op. Not much actual swimming will take place. The first few ' lessons' will assess ability, probably in a baby pool, and then they'll have activities in smaller groups relevant to perceived ability.

I’d check again with the school as to what they are planning to do as the current covid guidelines are that teachers should not be in the water as they can’t touch children due to social distancing therefore can’t help them if they get into trouble.

My experience of supporting school swimming y3-4 (so started at age 7-8)

Week 1 all tried out in a shallow training pool about 90cm. Split into 3 groups. Gold (confident, decent technique) based at the deep end of the main pool. Silver (novices, can swim to a basic standard but lacking technique or stamina) based in the shallow end of the main pool (90cm). Bronze (non-swimmers, lacking confidence) stayed in the training pool at 90 cm.

Our school had a high proportion of confident swimmers from private lessons. After 6 months at the start of y4, all had come a long way and the bronze were all more capable than they believed and were moved to deep water with access to the side and the better silver swimmers moved up and bronze/ silver almagamated into silver. Not all schools would have the need to do this, and most Bronze would stay in the shallow training pool as needed or move up to Silver.

It obviously doesn't answer your specific question, but the pool staff will start by assessing for themselves in shallow water. They teach hundreds of pupils per year, plus private lessons. They will encounter a lot of children with SNs affecting their attention span, confidence and co-ordibation.

My own DS has ASD and dyspraxia diagnosed through the year he went swimming. His stroke is a bit lop-sided but he progressed amazingly through swimming with his peers, far quicker than all through the years of private lessons (these continued). He tends to be risk adverse rather than no sense of danger and it was through this year that he encountered deep water and found confidence at it moving up from Silver to Gold. Even the least attentive child in the class stayed safe and made great progress (I'm pretty sure there is inattentive ADHD undiagnosed there) but the swimming teachers will have experience of the full range of neurodiversity.

I'm not in the UK and recommended ratios are one adult per 14 kids. 12 if they are non-swimmers and 16 if they are swimmers.

They didn't ask anyone (even me, when they know DS has issues with sports) if their children are non-swimmers.

They won't have 26 kids in the pool with one teacher. If my school swimming lessons are anything to go by, it'll be 2 kids swimming whilst 24 other kids sit shivering on the side waiting their turn.
I will query this thanks. I just asked how many children and how many adults.

The first few ' lessons' will assess ability, probably in a baby pool,
There is no baby pool, it is one pool.

Complete non-swimmers are usually taught separately in water that they can stand up in and the lessons are about learning to be comfortable, not panic - things like learning to hold their breath and put their faces in the water (which can take time), mushroom and star floats, holding onto the side and kicking, going up to a push and glide. There won't be any drowning involved and there is no way he'll be the only non swimmer - for some, it'll be the first time they've ever been in a pool.

I learned to swim without ever being touched by an adult. I don't see why this should have changed.

Is it possible (would DS mind?) for you to go along? Either as direct support for DS or to keep an eye on him from a viewing area? (You could shout if he got in

I would need a lot more information about what adults would be there & who would be with DS solely 100% of the time from getting on the coach to arriving back at school

Accidents all too easily happen in group environments and a non swimming child with various LD's & unwarranted water confidence is NOT something to be under cautious about!

The kids will be grouped by ability surely? When my dds went they were in 3 groups and only the most able swimmers were out of their depth. The non swimmers were wait deep.

*waist deep

At my kids school, they're always divided into 3 groups, the least confident who are in the shallow end, the middle group who can swim a bit and then the more competent swimmers in the deep end.

If it's a movable floor and they're all in the same depth, I imagine they would cater to the least able as the more able kids will still be able to swim in shallower water.

My son also has ASD and a 1:1, but she has to go in with him as he wouldn't cope on his own. If the TA is a dedicated TA for your son, I would argue that she should be going in the water with him. But it does sound like the school is trying to include him within his capabilities, so maybe have a chat with them about practicalities and whether the TA could accompany him?

The moveable floor may well be different for the different groups. The one at our local swimming pool can be changed for different lessons, but also can have a different depth at one side to the other.

The swimming teacher will no doubt have more information.

I'd have expected to have at least one more member of school staff to be present for 25 children swimming. When we take our Year 2s swimming we have a higher ratio than this, plus there are 3 swimming instructors - 1 of which (sometimes 2) are in the pool with them. Our school staff stay out of the pool.

Can you find out more about the lessons, or even go for the first session perhaps?

@BefuddledAsAFish

So as another parent you would be happy with effectively one swimming teacher supervising 25 children? Whilst B keeps an eye on my DS?

No, I would not, and I would trust my instincts.

Our children are assessed on day 1 - the instructors get them to come into the pool a couple at a time, but they always ask the children if they can swim beforehand, and school always ask the week before they start for up to date swimming and water confidence abilities.

Ours are then in 3 groups. The beginners are in the shallowest area - though none of the pool we use has a part you can reach the floor. The beginners have floats at all times.

In England at present there wouldn't be an instructor in the pool due to Covid, but that may depend on your country's rules.

I don’t get the problem to be honest. There are usually parent helpers to help with transport there. As someone else said above, ratios need to be adhered to. Plus there will be a lifeguard at the pool.

Just get him off on medical grounds. Either his GP if they will help, alternatively just go to a private GP (about £50) and they will do a letter for you saying they have assessed and recommend he doesn't swim without one to one close supervision with someone who is in the water with him. Job done. This worked for us when one DS was fine with it and the other was petrified (no special needs for either) but they can both swim now.

The one at our local swimming pool can be changed for different lessons, but also can have a different depth at one side to the other.
I'll ask about that tomorrow when we go for their (out of school) lesson.

Complete non-swimmers are usually taught separately in water that they can stand up in and the lessons are about learning to be comfortable, not panic - things like learning to hold their breath and put their faces in the water (which can take time), mushroom and star floats, holding onto the side and kicking, going up to a push and glide.
He can do all of that. He just can't do it all at the same time to be able to swim.

Accidents all too easily happen in group environments and a non swimming child with various LD's & unwarranted water confidence is NOT something to be under cautious about!
This describes him so well. He has absolutely no fear of the water (and no danger recognition generally) until he is in deep water. He will happily jump off the diving boards for example...

Considering kids managed to get him to jump off a nearly 2m tower in a supervised PE lesson, I don't see how they could stop something similar happening in the pool. Or of course, one of the other kids realising he can't swim and pushing him in.