Renting property- no check in report- what happens now?

[mcgonagalscat]

We have ended our tenancy in our rented accommodation and we are currently in process of getting it emptied. Professional cleaner booked and carpet cleaner and oven cleaning company, too.

There are a few scuffs on the walls in places, and it's obvious where we have had pictures up as we have lived here for five years,

I messaged my landlord and asked if he was freshening up and repainting between tenants, or whether we need to paint the lounge wall. He has told us that we need to repaint the entire house as it has been lived in and we need it to be in the same state as it was when we moved in.

I can't afford to, nor do I have the time to, and also the tenants before us had tried to colour match the walls in many rooms and had poly filled and painted just over the holes they had made. These were v obvious when we moved in, we have used the sticky things to put pics up over these to cover them up.

He said any marks on the carpet after the professional carpet clean, and we must pay to have the carpets replaced.

Can he make us do this? We didn't sign a check in report for the property, which I thought was odd at the time. Prior to this rental we had lived in London, and before a rental there the check in report was done so thoroughly, every little mark was written down.

I'm not trying to be a CF with this property, and I'm paying lots of have the professional clean, oven and carpets, but just wondering if anyone knows where we stand? Thanks!

If there was no check in report, or photos I'm assuming, then it would seem neither of you can prove what state the property was in when you took it.

Is there anything specific in your rental agreement about the state it was rented in or must be left in?

No there isn't, and no pictures were taken either. I don't think it we'll be left with marks everywhere, by the way, but my husband has been made redundant, I'm on maternity leave, and will need my full deposit money back to pay back for the cleaning, removal vans and storage deposit!

It is their right to demand the property is exactly as it was when you moved in, at your expense.

However, if there is no proof of how the property looked when you moved in (no written evidence, no photos) then it’s your word against theirs.

And if it is our word against theres, what happens then?

Then it’s possible he’ll put a claim in with your DPS, and then it’ll be down to them to decide.

Likelihood is that they’ll rule in your favour with no proof, but it could take longer to get your deposit back.

When renting you should always expect to return the property to the state it was in when you received it, at your own expense.

It is their right to demand the property is exactly as it was when you moved in, at your expense

Is it though? I thought landlords had to expect reasonable wear and tear.

Nothing happens. You get your deposit back, beauty of the deposit protection scheme.

Very foolish of the landlord to not have a check in report!

Is your deposit in a DPS or similar? If so he will have to raise a dispute to get money back from your deposit. If you don't agree it will go to mediation and he will have to provide evidence that your caused e.g. the marks on walls, holes, carpet stains etc. He will need to provide photographic evidence etc. If you didn't do a check in report then he is stuffed. You will then receive your deposit back in full. So, with a deposit protected and no check in, you should feel confident

And yes, reasonable wear and tear is expected

No there is an expectation of reasonable wear and tear. They cannot expect after 5 years for things to be in a new condition. They would lose any application to the DPS, as long as you challenge it. Unfortunately this can delay the return of your deposit.

Take a look here england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/tenancy_deposit_deductions_your_landlord_can_make

Thank you for your replies. Helpful to know

Yes, what @Lucindainthesky said. Take lots of pictures of everything, including meters and inside cupboards.

Lots of useful info on the dps website.

First point here:
www.depositprotection.com/im-a-tenant/i-want-to-know-more-about-disputes/evidence-submission/

And here about fair wear and tear:
www.depositprotection.com/learning-centre/disputes/common-dispute-questions/

if there was no inventory done at the start of the tenancy the DPS will find in your favour. this can take up to six months though.

@Neolara

It is their right to demand the property is exactly as it was when you moved in, at your expense

Is it though? I thought landlords had to expect reasonable wear and tear.

Reasonable wear and tear, yes. Anything beyond that—say you painted the walls, even with their permission, or picture hook holes in the walls etc.—and they have a right to demand it put back how it was when you found it.

The wear and tear comment is particularly useful, the house has been looked after, we are a tidy family, but there's definitely a few marks here and there

is it protected in a dps scheme? if not you can get up to 3x back.

It is their right to demand the property is exactly as it was when you moved in, at your expense

Of course it isn't!

It is illegal to try to improve the quality of your property at a tenant's expense. After five years, there should be five years of 'fair wear and tear' on the property (which means things like wear on carpets, small scuffs/marks on walls). A LL who tries to get the property returned to the condition it was in five years ago is pulling a fast one.

Mind you, he probably saw you coming when you asked if he wanted you to do some painting.

If neither of you has pictures, and there's no check-in report of the state of the property, he is going to struggle to demonstrate you owe him anything whatsoever; you certainly don't have to improve his property at your own expense.

Yes, in 5 years the expectation of some dilapidation due to reasonable wear and tear is clear. Your landlord cannot demand you repaint the whole house or re-carpet. Keep any messages where he asks you to as evidence of his unreasonable expectations if he tries to hold onto any of the deposit money.

www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection

Take lots of photos of everything so you can make a case if he fails to return your deposit

It would be hugely unreasonable for a LL to expect to have the walls freshly painted and new carpets for the first tenant only because from then on it is down to every subsequent tenant to ensure the carpets and walls are in ‘as new’ condition when they leave regardless of how long the tenants have been there for.
Honestly what planet are some people on?!

Hi lovely,

I'd wind myself up for a battle here. They are at it but the comments the landlords have made point that way. I'd pre empt it by getting a couple of quotes (from the cheapest of cheap people - try Facebook and Gumtree) for a full paint job and carpet quote etc. Then when they present you with a massive estimate for that you can provide contrary estimates and you are more likely to get more of the deposit back.
(IME houses need a full paint after 5 years with sealant touch up and if you can get away with no new carpets you're lucky - and that all counts as general wear and tear!)
Is it with a letting agent? That should make it easier and fairer.
Keep receipts for professional cleaner and carpet clean and make sure the cooker clean is itemised separately.
Be reasonable and prepared to negotiate.
Good luck and hope your new place is great.

I used to work in a property management office. Deposit protection almost always sided with the tenant in cases like this as it's down to landlord to prove damages are beyond reasonable wear and tear.

I would suggest filling in any holes left from things on the walls and do a decent, thorough clean throughout on departure.

Take timed and dated photos to prove how you are leaving the property. This will be your evidence should he try to claim any of your deposit towards damages. (If you are getting a cleaner in, keep the invoice to prove this)

Is your deposit definitely held in a protection scheme? You should have details of how to access it and the deposit money is paid from them direct to you, not via the landlord