After sticking with it for nearly 2 years, DS has given up on his dream

[FinnyStory]

Bloody Capita "managing" Army recruitment.

Since he was 13 DS1's only ambition has been to be an Army Officer. Threw himself into everything as a cadet and succeeded there in a way he never did at school.

Not naturally academic, he had to work really hard to get the A level grades needed, which he did.

Submitted his application in Nov 2018 and spent 9 months being constantly told they needed this piece of information then another piece, all of which were sent straightaway and acknowledged. At one point they cancelled his application because he hadn't responded, when he had emails confirming they had everything they needed.

Then spent a day travelling for the medical and was deferred because of his hearing. Despite having met the published standard, he showed some slight hearing loss which they wanted investigating. Fair enough but it took 4 months to arrange the follow up appointment.

The Consultant wrote a letter saying he did show slight hearing loss but no cause for concern just to be careful with hearing protection. This was sufficient for them to reject him on medical grounds, despite the fact that he had met their own standard and their doctor wasn't concerned.

He appealed and won but this took another 5 months.

Then he was due to go for selection which was cancelled due to lockdown.OK I'll give them that, it wasn't their fault.

However, the process apparently restarted in June but by this time his original medical is a year old and he needs another one, before he goes for selection which is currently set for September. He's been told he must not attend if he doesn't have an up to date medical.

He has been promised a medical date before then but nothing has been forthcoming. He has phoned and/or emailed everyday for the last month chasing up this medical appointment. The person he needs is either not there, promises to call straight back or doesn't return his calls. The emails are unanswered. He's asked to speak to someone in charge and was promised a call within 48 hours but...

This is for a lad who was the most senior/successful Army cadet in the county and has an absolutely glowing recommendation from the County Commandant, a recently retired General. They should be chasing him, not the other way round.

Anyway, today, he's decided enough's enough and it's no longer his chosen path.

I'm just venting really but isn't it reassuring to know our military is so well organised?!

“He has a decade’s worth of stories of incompetence, jobsworths and people in command with very little common sense who wouldn’t last five minutes in the private sector. “

This is missing the point of the thread but is Capita not private sector?

Could he continue with the application process whilst doing the degree apprenticeship? I know someone who spent several years in limbo due to medical issues, appeals, appointments with medical specialists in different parts of the country, slow admin by Capita etc and got in eventually, whilst working full-time throughout those years.

Capita are indeed a shower of shite. My DH has been trying to join the RN reserves for 16 months...he is also about to give up. So sad that this is your boy’s hope and dream. I know many people in the Royal Navy are utterly frustrated by Capita and their crap ness

@ElectricMistofelees

If this sort of thing is a problem, he should also probably rule out the entire public sector!

Yes, thanks for that inciteful comment, I think he probably will

Have your written about this before?

@Helmetbymidnight

its interesting reading those with experience of capita, the armed services and recruitment respond sympathetically to the op, whereas some other posters seem to be enjoying just sticking the boot in.

Isn't it just?

I hope OP ignores the mean-spirited trolls

@Pancakeorcrepe do you get up extra early to practice being such a bitch?

OP - JE sounds super resilient and like he'd be an asset to any company. I wish him lots of luck with his degree apprenticeship - these things have a habit of working out for the best ultimately

FWIW DH served in Northern Island and the first Gulf War and I was an Army wife. We're not completely without experience or any idea of what makes a good officer, but this is beyond comprehension and actually, quite worrying for a nation that needs a decent Army.

Ireland, sorry, that must have been auto correct!

I was a bit harsh in my response earlier and do apologise for that. :-)

I do think though that sometimes something just isn’t meant to be, and it’s good that he has a fallback.

Incidentally, aren’t Capita one of the companies who deal with PIP assessments?

We have to deal with Crapita at work and honestly if I became a dictator disbanding them would be really damned high on my list.

As far as I can see they win contracts because public sector procurement regulations (I am pro EU but these are one of the things I am desperate to get rid of once we leave - we won't as they've been written into uk law separately but I can hope) compel organisations to hold a completely transparent process based on scoring different questions combined with price. This was designed with good intentions (to stop people giving their mates contracts) but the nature of it favours a) under pricing and then clawing back extra cash later and b) large firms like capita that play the scoring system and then under deliver.

One NHS organisation is being sued by someone (not Crapita) for giving a contract for healthcare to another NHS organisation rather than a private company.

I find the whole thing a thoroughly depressing waste of taxpayers money.

I hope your son is happy with his degree apprenticeship. I can entirely believe it will be the army missing out, he sounds like a great lad.

If this is typical of the recruitment process then no, we're not going to end up with the most "resilient" and "persevering" people in the army. We're going to end up with the ones who are so lacking that they're happy to sit around for years not progressing and not being offered anything else.

@Pancakeorcrepe

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

What a load of nonsense. No competent employer recruits on the basis of an assumption that the most talented applicants will hang around indefinitely waiting for them to get around to answering the occasional email.

Why is it that people around here are so desperate to attack an OP that they will abandon all logical thought processes in order to do so?

Nacreous Organisations can choose the weightings they give to price as opposed to other factors, and they can (and should) obtain references from the bidders' past clients in pre-qualification. A transparent system based on objective scoring is exactly right for the public sector.

In the private sector, it's even more a case of 'cheapest wins.'

What process would you want if you were dictator?

Capita seem to be notoriously awful yet, we, the taxpayer, keep employing them?

Very good question.

What process would you want if you were dictator?

Up the technical weighting and lower the one that is solely price, plus better evaluation criteria and participation from skilled internal professionals who can actually evaluate whether what the bids are claiming to be able to deliver for x amount is realistic.

As far as I can see they win contracts because public sector procurement regulations (I am pro EU but these are one of the things I am desperate to get rid of once we leave - we won't as they've been written into uk law separately but I can hope) compel organisations to hold a completely transparent process based on scoring different questions combined with price. This was designed with good intentions (to stop people giving their mates contracts) but the nature of it favours a) under pricing and then clawing back extra cash later and b) large firms like capita that play the scoring system and then under deliver.

This. I used to work in an organisation which had a public service contract which operated very efficiently and successfully. It was subject to a third party quality control process in which it consistently scored at the highest possible level. Then a new procurement process was brought in, and suddenly we were out because their new scoring criteria totally ignored the quality control aspect or indeed track history Two other organisations with no track history but which had quoted very low rates got the contract instead. They had no idea how to begin to operate the contracts properly, and discovered very quickly that they couldn't survive financially at the rates they had tendered for. After a few months of utter chaos they gave up the contracts and my employers were asked to take over again.

Good luck to him in his apprenticeship. I'm sure he will do really well

Zoe I don't disagree with transparent processes at all, I'm a big fan of not giving contracts to people's mates. But the current system is time consuming and ungainly, yes you can weight price and quality differently and you can set different minimum quality scores, but that doesn't solve the way that low balling can skew procurements even when you keep the quality price ratio as low as 80:20, or the various other hoops and difficulties. I've modelled different scenarios with different scoring mechanisms and there are different difficulties with every one.

I really am thoroughly in favour of effective, fair, and transparent public sector procurement. I just really don't think the way it works currently is generally proportional or effective. I've worked in the private sector too and I still believe that.

Nacreous There are problems for sure and you can game the system. But I don't see what a better alternative would be?

Time40- and if you were offered another good job in that time?

No, I really wouldn't, not if the job that took over two years was my dream. I think I would give it another six months ... then even I might give up.

That said, I have the utmost sympathy for the OP's son. It really is ridiculous and deeply wrong that it can take so long. In your and your son's place, OP, I would be making a massive fuss about it - I don't blame you for saying (although crossed out) that you wouldn't mind the papers picking this story up. This must be costing the taxpayer so much money, and losing so many good recruits.

@FinnyStory - Don't give up hope yet. I don't think I can pm you from my phone but would you mind if I pm you'd from my computer in the morning? My army officer husband has read this and is annoyed on your behalf. I'll message you some info tomorrow and see if it helps. Sorry I can't do it this evening.

It's not me who's given up,DS has decided to take the opportunity his current employer is falling over themselves to offer him, but of course if you have anything that may help, I'll pass it on. Thank you.

Tbh I think that knowing when to stop is a valuable skill.

You will often see mners talking about the sunk cost fallacy - and Ithink it applies. He did damn everything he could, but at some point you have to walk away rather than keep banging your head against a brick wall(for10 years no less).

Weird how difficult the trolls find reading. He had passed the army’s own requirements re: hearing, it wasn’t actually an issue. If it was, they should raise the bar. He has glowing references, and shows tenacity. He has succeeded in getting a degree apprenticeship, which franking is a far more difficult bar to jump, and seems to have a plan.

I’d be so proud. Well done on the parenting there mummy; I realise much of it is his own wiring, but you’ve obviously helped create the useful human he is.

DS is happy, you can see the weight lifted from his shoulders, having come to this decision. And we've given a lot of people the opportunity to feel better about themselves this evening God help them that this is what it takes, but as several posters have said, it's very obvious where the support of anyone who knows what they're talking about lies.

Unfortunately it's too late for DS, which I understand doesn't matter for anyone but us, but even if you've managed to convince yourself that DS is no loss to the Army, how many strong candidates are they losing this way? And at what cost, financial and otherwise?

Another ex-employee of Crapita here. I was a manager there and was TUPE, before I quit a few years later. They have absolutely zero morals and zero interest in delivering any kind of quality service.

Someone asked why they keep getting contracts. It's because they're cheap. And on the face of things, they deliver. When the contract is agreed, certain service level agreements will be put in place - Capita makes sure these never fail because otherwise they get fined. But they will fudge the figures to make sure they pass, or they'll let other things in the background fail. It's only ever about looking good enough to stop people digging, and to prevent financial penalties, while generating maximum profit.

I remember once my team was told the service we were delivering was too good - as their manager, I was in trouble for that. Capita will only deliver the absolute minimum that's paid for, nothing more. There used to be a belief "if the figures show you need 6 people to get the job done, you'll get given 5 people and expected to deliver".

If you've never worked for Capita, or seen the innermost workings, it's impossible to realise just what a dreadful company they are, or how frustrating to deal with.