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when the posh children in Enid Blyton have an "ice", I always thought it meant "ice lolly"...

677 replies

sadpapercourtesan · 30/07/2020 15:06

...but I was reading "Five Go To Billycock Hill" last night, and they talked about having an "ice" in a tub with a little wooden spoon...surely that's an ice cream?!

Yes, I have too much time on my hands. I should be doing stuff Blush

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Diverseopinions · 31/07/2020 14:26

'Five Go Off in a Caravan' is tops.
Realistically, you get reputable and disreputable characters in all walks of life, and didn't a writer say that all literature is about the battle between good and evil. Children's literature features nice teachers / horrible ones, lovely neighbours/ miserable ones. I suppose that if you nuance too much the story goes out the window.

missclimpson · 31/07/2020 16:06

My granddaughters laugh at me because I still talk about pretty frocks.
😂

PrivateSpidey · 31/07/2020 16:28

@summerredroses

I’ve always loved the name Lucy since one of the nicer girls from St Clares was called Lucy Oriel, I think. It doesn’t go with my surname at all unfortunately or I would have used it.
Yes Lucy Oriel - she was one of my favourites too - and Enid moved her up to the next form after only one book, iirc!

I think her father was an artist who fell on hard times when Lucy was already at St Clare's. Luckily Miss Theobald came up with a scholarship for her, but sadly she had to leave the twins' form, along with another interesting character who I think was called Mirabel?! Who was brilliant at games.

I also liked "Don't Care Bobby".

AdaColeman · 31/07/2020 16:29

I recently discovered a smashing series written by Pamela Brown, "The Swish of the Curtain", about a group of teenagers setting up a theatre company.

Written when she was a teenager herself, she then went on to a successful career as an actress & producer. Maggie Smith has said that she was inspired to become an actress by reading The Swish of the Curtain.
The books are packed with period detail, colloquialisms, friendly adults who aid the children (the local Bishop and a Squire!), understanding parents...
It's all pure escapism and a lot of jolly good fun!

Shell4429 · 31/07/2020 17:32

In Germany ice cream is Eis, which sounds the same as ice. Makes me think that we were the same in the olden days.

EBearhug · 31/07/2020 17:32

I like Swish of the Curtain, too. Which reminds me, I still have the last of the series to look forward to.

DanceItOut · 31/07/2020 17:33

Ice = ice cream I would say. Pretty sure because it used to literally be ice shaving with flavouring.

Mary54 · 31/07/2020 17:44

Showing my age but yes, an ice is an ice cream. I als remember a lolly being an iced lolly

itssquidstella · 31/07/2020 17:48

There is one Enid Blyton story in the series of Mr Pinkwhistle stories (for younger readers, he's a kindly brownie) where the main characters are poor.

They can't go to a birthday party they've been invited to because their mother has to wash their only set of clothes after a dog spatters mud in them whilst they're drying on the line. The children have to stay in bed as they don't have anything to wear. Mr Pinkwhistle saves the day by smuggling some new clothes into their chest of drawers.

I can't believe how vividly I remember that!

SerenDippitty · 31/07/2020 17:52

Yes Lucy Oriel - she was one of my favourites too - and Enid moved her up to the next form after only one book, iirc!

I think her father was an artist who fell on hard times when Lucy was already at St Clare's. Luckily Miss Theobald came up with a scholarship for her, but sadly she had to leave the twins' form, along with another interesting character who I think was called Mirabel?! Who was brilliant at games.*

It was Margery Fenworthy. She was very unhappy because her mother had died and her father - who was a mountaineer who had climbed Mount Everest - had remarried and had another family - a boy and girl I think. She'd been expelled from several schools and was very sulky and bad tempered. She redeemed herself when there was a fire in the san and she rescued a girl by climbing up the drainpipes to her room and making a rope of sheets and carrying her down on her back.

Mirabel arrived at St Claires in the second form. She was another bad tempered one. She didn't want to come to St Claires at all and told everyone she'd be leaving at half term. Her father had said that if she didn't like St Claires she could leave then. Mirabel became increasingly overbearing as she moved up the school until she became sports captain in the fifth form and was a disaster.

Ronnie68 · 31/07/2020 17:53

As a child when I used to visit my Dad's family in Nottingham they used to mimic me for asking for an ice!

Possiblywickedandlazy · 31/07/2020 17:56

@AdaColeman

I recently discovered a smashing series written by Pamela Brown, "The Swish of the Curtain", about a group of teenagers setting up a theatre company. Written when she was a teenager herself, she then went on to a successful career as an actress & producer. Maggie Smith has said that she was inspired to become an actress by reading The Swish of the Curtain. The books are packed with period detail, colloquialisms, friendly adults who aid the children (the local Bishop and a Squire!), understanding parents... It's all pure escapism and a lot of jolly good fun!
I absolutely adored these books. My mum has them when she was a child and passed them down to me. Pamela Brown also wrote The Bridesmaids which could possibly be my favourite children’s book of all time. It’s been out of print for such a long time that it’s hard to get hold of a copy but I‘d recommend it to anyone who loves a bit of Blyton-esque old fashioned charm. Brown’s books are far better written though and the characters aren’t all despicable people. I don’t remember any poor bashing or racism either.
Wilkie1956mog · 31/07/2020 18:23

These days a lot of people view Enid Blyton as very non-pc and racist. Calling a child Fatty, for instance, and her baddies were often dark skinned or foreigners or gypsies. There's one story where she called a character that n-word that is (rightly) unmentionable now. Having said that, I loved her books as a child and read some of them to my own daughter when she was small. The stories were good but her attitudes not so good, when seen through more enlightened eyes in the present day.

hagsrus0 · 31/07/2020 18:34

I used to love Hollow Tree House

juneo63 · 31/07/2020 18:41

Oh I loved and lived the famous 5!! I so wanted to be one of them 😂 my 4 children were all introduced to them! But only 1 followed my interest!

Passenger42 · 31/07/2020 18:53

It’s an ice cream. I found my old Enid Blyton books and was glad I have the uncensored versions from the 70’s were the characters slap people rather than the new edited books with changed words.

OxenoftheSun · 31/07/2020 18:54

The FF do like Jo and admire things about her. EB seems to feel something and have charity. Can't quite reconcile this with being cruel to her own kids - unless there is exaggeration in that claim.

But Jo, however much her uncanny direction finding, skill at climbing and fearlessness etc is admired by the main children, is simply not viewed as as fully human as the FF by the narrator.

She's purely there as picturesque local colour, and at the end the Kirrins' cook Joanna (who shares her room with Jo when she stays overnight at Kirrin Cottage, presumably on the grounds that she couldn't possibly share with George and Anne, just as Ern had to have tea in the Trotteville/Linton kitchen with the servants) is taken in hand by Joanna who says something about having a sister or cousin who likes 'bad girls' and will give her a home. Like she's a rescue dog.

And I know a lot of novelists -- being able to write with a degree of empathy in no way precludes you from being a ghastly human being! Her daughters have gone extensively on record about their mother, and one daughter wrote a memoir. They disagree on EB's qualities as a mother, but even the well-disposed daughter admits that she was her mother's favourite and that her sister was less fortunate.

And even leaving aside her daughters' testimony and the more dubiously-founded stuff about the lesbian affair with her daughters' nanny and the naked tennis, there's a lot that is a matter of public record or in her diaries. For instance, her first husband, Hugh Pollock, an editor at her publishers, was married with children when she met him, and she vowed she would bag him in her diary. Later, after they'd married and she was having one of many affairs, with Kenneth Darrell Waters (a surgeon who would be her second husband), her husband agreed to be the wrongdoer for the purposes of the divorce if she would let him have access to their children - so as not to wreck her reputation and career -- but she never let him see his daughters again after the divorce, and succeeded in ruining his career in publishing, so he ended up bankrupt.

I think she was in many ways brilliant, and ahead of her time in self-marketing (down to the famous signature) and cultivating her child fans via fan clubs, magazines etc, but also a nasty piece of work as a human being in many ways

Can you imagine Aunt Fanny and Uncle Quentin or Aunt Allie and Bill Cunningham carrying on like that while the children were off tracking down smugglers and exploring secret passages? Grin

MadMadaMim · 31/07/2020 19:01

'gelato' means iced

Wambsgans · 31/07/2020 19:04

@MadMadaMim

'gelato' means iced
I'll give you a bottle of ginger beer if you can point me to a mention of "gelato" in one of her books! Grin
Wambsgans · 31/07/2020 19:07

Were there ever characters called Gillian and Imogen in her books? Somehow as a child I was aware that these were her two daughters but no idea how. Maybe some blurb at the back/ front.

Theoldwrinkley · 31/07/2020 19:15

It’s just old fashioned language. My lovely neighbour (85) always says ‘motoring’ if describing a car journey, and (a recent one, this), a ‘stopping’ when I would describe a filling in a tooth. She also calls a salary a ‘screw’ which makes me shudder and chuckle at the same time.
She can be v posh.

Witchend · 31/07/2020 19:32

@itssquidstella

There is one Enid Blyton story in the series of Mr Pinkwhistle stories (for younger readers, he's a kindly brownie) where the main characters are poor.

They can't go to a birthday party they've been invited to because their mother has to wash their only set of clothes after a dog spatters mud in them whilst they're drying on the line. The children have to stay in bed as they don't have anything to wear. Mr Pinkwhistle saves the day by smuggling some new clothes into their chest of drawers.

I can't believe how vividly I remember that!

I think that's the very first Mr Pink whistle story.
ALongHardWinter · 31/07/2020 19:43

Did they have 'heaps of tomatoes and lashings of ginger beer' too? Grin

pollymere · 31/07/2020 19:44

I've just been camping in Dorset with the steam train in the distance whilst scratching my leg on gorse whilst hiking across the Common (genuinely!). It definitely means ice-cream.

FelicisNox · 31/07/2020 19:56

I've never read Enid Blyton.

I'm clearly missing out.