You’re in charge of the Gov policy on tackling obesity. Give me your five point plan...

[MrsGrindah]

I’m sick of reading lots of vague pledges . What , in your experience , would work? NB I’m not Michael or Boris just interested having struggled with weight all my life. You don’t have to cost it etc..just what do you think would work if it could be done.

Mine would be:

1. Sugar fines or levies not taxes on producers of core foods eg processed food and drink manufacturing. Fines have a completely different association than taxes
2. Weight management education running through a variety of classes eg home Ed, biology, PE etc. at school and also part of any childcare classes
3. School meals to have complete overhaul. No pizza, chips etc. More expensive yes but cheaper than the cost of obesity
4. Zero tolerance on fat shaming in schools.
5. Doctors to have more rights to refuse treatment for weight related health problems ( unless life threatening) until patients agree to a weight loss plan of action that is supported by suitably trained healthcare professionals.

MrsGrindah-

What do you mean ‘zero tolerance fat shaming in schools’?

Do you mean bullying? I didn’t know there actually was ‘fat shaming’ in schools!

Yes I mean bullying on the grounds that someone is fat. Which can also apply to the staff by the way.

1. Introduce a four day working week and flexible working to allow people time to spend cooking healthy food for their families rather than getting home, chucking some pasta on the table and putting the kids to bed before working more hours themselves.

2. Greater emphasis on education about refined carbs/sugar/insulin/diabetes nationally and at all levels of school.

3. High taxes on processed food and alcohol.

4. Government support for lowering prices to access green spaces/national parks/NT properties.

5. Improve the weather in the U.K! (Tongue in cheek)

Will0wtree

Yes, so fascinating !

The idea that there's a hormone in your stomach that makes you hungrier (and that the amount of that hormone is variable per person).

So you remove that hormone (ghrelin) and voila you are then satisfied with smaller meals - that literally takes all the judgement out of carrying extra fat! And the other hormone PYY is increased once ghrelin goes down that sends signals that your now not hungry.

This is literally biologically exactly the same as some people can see further away and some people can't 🤷‍♀️

We don't criticise people for being short sighted, we just give them glasses or contacts - we don't BLAME them for it

So why would we blame overweight people for having extra hormone in their stomach that they CAN'T CONTROL?

1) Introduce a four day working week and flexible working to allow people time to spend cooking healthy food for their families rather than getting home, chucking some pasta on the table and putting the kids to bed before working more hours themselves

Sorry but I'm not seeing the logic in a 4 day week. Presumably the job still needs done so people are equally tired and probably more so doing 4x 10hrs instead of 5x 8hours.
Not to mention if people are doing longer shifts they are more likely to go for a quick dinner / eat junk than they are doing shorter day's.

Lots of nurses do 3 days so 3x 12 hours, they are very active but have a high rate of obesity.

• ‘Proper’ cooking lessons in schools, lots of practical lessons about cooking basic, wholesome food. Similar programmes available via children’s centres for adults who want to cook healthy meals for their families.
• Investment in parks and outdoor spaces.
• Reintroducing set PE hours for school children.
• Exercise classes in public spaces which are free and family-friendly (either with crèche available or something kids can do, too).
• I would atop subsiding slimming world memberships as I don’t think diets ‘work’ long term- would use the money to invest in the above, instead.

@Wolfgirrl

I dont think there is anything that can realistically be done about it.

And I am not convinced it is all down to over eating. Men arguably eat more food & less home cooked/healthy stuff than women (who generally are better at taking care of themselves). Yet it seems you see so so so many more fat young women than fat young men. The men dont tend to really pile it on until middle age.

I think part of it is hormones - contraceptives, in food etc. I think they mess about with women causing PCOS, weight gain, etc.

Women have lost their shape, even when they're slim-ish they tend to be quite thick round the middle with no waist.

Its just my own personal hunch but I would be interested to hear what others think.

I agree that women seem to be a different shape nowadays. The biggest difference looking at clothing
Sizes now and from the 1980s/90s is the waist measurement . Even if you say that a size 8 now was a 12, 30 years ago , the waist measurement is about 6 inches larger.

My excuse is menopausal changes but I don't know with young women.

[quote LaurieFairyCake]Carry out as many bariatric surgeries as Europe

The TREATMENT for obesity over BMI of 35 is surgery - nothing else

The following are facts about obesity:

1. There is widespread prejudice against obesity in the NHS (and understandably through the general population)

1. Surgery SAVES the Nhs money even though the surgery costs around £10k - saves 10 times that over a persons lifetime

1. The chance of you bringing your BMI into the healthy zine once your BMI has hit 35 is 1 in 825

1. And the chance of keeping it off are 1 in 10,000

Again, the TREATMENT for obesity is SURGERY and it SAVES the nhs money

Link that confirms the above :

BBC documentary

[/quote] Aren’t there studies that suggest most people who have weight loss surgery just regain it all anyway?

Besides, some don’t want it, some are too risky to give general anaesthetic to.

@WarmSummerEvenings

Oh and actually educate people on sugar content.

E.g. milk, yoghurt, fruit etc are all high in sugar and that sugar is no less bad for you than that found in cakes, sweets and fizzy drinks. The nutritional benefits found in those foods can be found elsewhere without the sugar.

And I'd add improve agricultural practises by supporting farmers so that people eat according to the season and to ensure that the ground we grow food in/raise livestock on ensures nutrient dense real food so that people rely less on processed crap.

Perhaps we can start with educating people on the differences between those sugars that are intrinsic to a natural product such as milk or fruit, and those which are added sugars to products such as cakes, biscuits etc

I despair of people who look at the nutritional information on a packet of chopped fruit and panic that it's unhealthy as it has a high sugar content . I had a WW consultant who said that people shouldn't eat ready chopped fruit as it had sugar in it. Completely oblivious that it was the same fruit as bought whole but that didn't come with a calorie label on it.

If you want Japanese levels of obesity, you need a culture where being fat is socially unacceptable

It already is, tho, walk of shame into special ‘fat girl’ shops, people thinking it’s fine to shout ‘fat cow’ at strangers on the street.

It will take some kind of sea change to enable a difference in British culture. Offering subsidised/free healthy food/exercise is pointless if the overweight person doesn’t take up the offer. Also, how will you ensure someone attends the Gp or classes/therapy? I wouldn’t say people are fine being fat, but I would say an awful lot of fat people just won’t bother to take up the support offered.

So why would we blame overweight people for having extra hormone in their stomach that they CAN'T CONTROL

Because a lot of fat people (and I’m one of them) don’t stop eating when their stomach tells them they’re full/no longer hungry. That’s kind of the whole concept behind being fat!

WitchesGlove

Yes, 10% of people who have gastric band surgery put it back (they are falling out of favour)

Less than 1% do if they have bypass or sleeve

HOWEVER - if you lose weight without surgery you have a 1 in 10,000 chance of keeping it off

No Shizzlesticks

That is not the WHOLE concept behind carrying extra fat

SOME people who have an eating disorder eat past the point of being full - very sorry if as you say, that's you (you can get help with that along with surgery - actually loads of psych help)

The majority of people who are overweight aren't binging, aren't massively overeating, have diabetes/disabilities/other conditions - they're just getting on with their lives carrying extra fat

The majority of people who are overweight aren't binging, aren't massively overeating, have diabetes/disabilities/other conditions - they're just getting on with their lives carrying extra fat

Hmm, I’m looking at people like me who seriously overweight. Some of them obviously have issues, but some ARE massively overeating. You don’t get to be over 20 stones by eating small healthy portions. Believe me, I know!

Diabetes type 2 can be induced by being overweight and equally, resolved by weight loss. I’m not thinking of people with disabilities who can’t exercise, it must be incredibly difficult to lose weight if you’re unable to even walk.

Diets should be regulated and trialled like any other medical treatment. There's at least as much evidence for low(ish) carb diets or "fasting/5:2) as low fat. People should be prescribed one or other and followed up if the first doesn't work. You wouldn't choose your own cancer treatment from a magazine or website.

1. A sensible calorie tracking app, but one that discourages regularly going under calories or losing weight if underweight. Incentivise tracking even when over calories because this works well. Gameify getting to 5% weight loss, or stages towards targets. Set small targets.
2. Promote plant based eating which addresses appetite and overeating.
3. Give advice for special occasions and getting back on track which is more important than not getting off track.
4. Access to a 12 week online support group addressing things like comfort eating, self-sabotage, self-esteem, positive body behaviours.
5. Promote exercise with campaigns similar to this girl can.

The fact obesity is related to socio-economic status is very relevant. The poorer you are, the more takeaways in the vicinity of your home and the more obese you are likely to be.

Food companies have far too much influence over policy and government messages.

1. Joined up strategy covering all factors inc education, housing, mental health, poverty etc.

2 Overhaul and simplification of diet advice, creation of a strategic list of approaches. Seriously challenge failed low fat approach.

1. Regulation of junk/processed food to reduce sector by at least half
2. Eat real food, at mealtimes, don't snack. Employers responsible to make this possible for shift workers etc.
3. Plan to increase fitness and wellbeing

Return to a uniform clothes sizing that stops vanity sizing. The more people can kid themselves they're a size 14 when really they're 16-18 or actually way more in the old system they easier it is to ignore the problem. I know I did for ages.

Very little around weight loss initiatives etc at all:

1. Reduce inequality and poverty. This is the major driver of poor health outcomes. This means increase wages, improve housing, proper jobs that pay a living wage.

1. Joined up planning. No out of town estates or shopping centres that mean you are car dependent. Use '15 minute city' principles to create walkable, liveable neighbourhoods.

1. Massive push on transport infrastructure. Make public transport much much cheaper. Disincentive car ownership in urban areas (exceptions for essential user). Public transport always involves a walk, it's active travel. School zones in which cars are banned. Segregated cycling facilities. Wide pavements. Prioritise people over motorised traffic.

1. Food infrastructure - no food deserts, community food projects (ie cheap box schemes), access to affordable, good quality food. Yes, you can do cooking projects and the like, but the food needs to be available and affordable.

1. School- reduced time sitting still, forest school, outdoor learning, more PE with specialist teaching (but a range of activities, not just competitive games). Free school lunches for all.

But none of that is a quick fix.

Someone right back at the start of the thread has it for me.
We need to change the attitude of ' you are lucky to have food, now eat it all'
I constantly heard this as a child 'there are children in Africa who would be glad of that, now you can't leave the table until your plate is empty '
Mainly from my grandparents, who were young adults during the war.
So my parents and my generation grew up trained to eat everything we were given, even if we were not hungry.
I still struggle now to leave food on the plate, it feels so rude and disrespectful to the cook, even if its DH or a restaurant when I know the chef wont know or care if I've eaten it all.
I've tried so hard not.to pass that attitude on to my DC.
So step 1 of my plan would be to ensure everyone had enough food that they didn't grow up with this attitude and pass it on down the generations.
If food was secure, people wouldnt feel the need to eat so much when it was available. So more support for those in poverty to buy and cook better food.

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow Completely agree about vanity sizing.
I'd also abandon S/M/L (too ambiguous) and use numbers instead.

Primark is the perfect example. Their sizes are huge for the corresponding letter now.

Hopefully, it also enable those of us who are slim to get clothes that actually fit too.
I'm always struggled with my weight from the opposite end of the spectrum and even the smallest size (4, not many places stock smaller than that unfortunately) in some shops is too big.

I do agree with the the food bank issue. As marvellous as it is to have them and their volunteers, the few times I have volunteered there I have been close to tears as the thought this is what people have to eat on the breadline. Rows and rows of biscuits and tinned processed food.

I have noticed in relation to most very overweight people I know, their diets are generally pretty poor. So even a freshly cooked main course will include oven chips. Bags of crisps are opened to pass the time. Copious chocolate at night in front of the telly. People don’t seem to know how to cook basic meals.

And often a total reliance on the car. Even to get a pint of milk. Why not walk? Walking is so underrated as a form of exercise. That is often going to be enough for people and it’s free! These step counters are good for motivation.

I’m in scotland. We just aren’t geared up to do it properly. The school curriculum now has a tick box around healthy eating. None of the modern schools have space for a proper HE classroom so to teach it, out school bought trolleys and showed the kids how to chop fruit. Box ticked. I despaired. Cooking a basic meal is a basic life skill.

But ultimately it needs to be personal responsibility. I don’t believe the NHS should fund gym memberships for example. I think people need to know that their middle fat really is killing them but only they can choose what they put in their mouth each day. I do think government spending should focus on independence from the food industry, policies relating to food advertising, proper cooking skills courses in schools and the community, local access to growing schemes in community parks. Christ , even an advert on how to cook a courgette in olive oil and add herbs - or store and peel a potato - basic life skills we somehow lost

I put on weight during lockdown due to not being able to do my usual exercise (the school run which is 5 miles a day). My appetite didn't decrease accordingly and I also comfort ate in the evenings. This was on the back of stopping breastfeeding 6 months before and again my appetite hadn't returned to normal. Add in peri-menopause and medication for various things and I felt it was out of my control. Having had a restrictive eating disorder for 20 years the extra weight freaked me out and made me hate myself and I risked rebooting the disorder by dieting. I couldn't even bear to weigh myself. But I decided I needed to get a grip and take action. I bought a Fitbit and started being more active by making more trips up and down the stairs, doing step ups, dancing while waiting for things to cook etc. At the same time I started doing 16:8 as I ate a good quarter of my calories in bed while reading or watching tv. So my cut off was 6pm. I downloaded my fitness pal and stuck to an average of 1200 calories. After a few weeks I bought scales and found the courage to weigh myself. 10st 5lb so not as bad as I'd feared. Knowing how much I weighed and tracking calories and exercise gave me the boost I needed but I had reached the point where I knew I needed to do something and most importantly was ready to do it. The problem is that weight loss is bloody boring. I love carbs and chocolate and cheese but it's all about the choices we make. Sure I'd love to eat lasagne and chips or pizza and chips a couple of times a week each (I did say I love carbs!) but I eat them in small quantities and not as often as I used to. I wanted hot buttered muffins for lunch but I had rice cakes, peanut butter and an apple instead. I'm trying to change my thinking from
food being a treat to it being fuel. It's hard.
I remember reading in an eating disorders book that recovering from food addiction is so hard because we need food to live. We can't give it up like drugs or alcohol.

The stats quoted above about the chances of losing weight once your BMI exceeds a certain point are very concerning and I'd be interested to read more on why that is. Obesity is poorly understood and such a complex condition but we all have a choice on what we eat. Even if poverty means we eat less healthy foods we can choose to eat smaller portions. We can choose to look up healthier recipes and how to use cheap ingredients like pulses. We can choose to educate ourselves about being healthier. Motivation is a huge factor here and we need to look at that to figure out ways to address the problem. We need to empower people to be able to make better choices and talk about locus of control so that there is personal accountability.

Sorry, that was long