How do you know if your child is school ready?

[pastaparadise]

Ds2 is due to start school in Sept aged 4 and 4 weeks. We had permission to defer him starting for a year, agonised over the decision before turning it down, then flipped back to accepting a place, and now wobbling again and wanting to defer (i know the headteacher must hate me).

He just seems too little for school. His speech is good, he's physically strong and confident, and he's sociable. But he hates sitting still, cant hold a pencil properly yet let alone form letters, is impulsive, cant wipe his bottom (and wont be helped due to cv). And he's never been in a pre school setting (he's with a childminder who has more flexible hours). I worry that he looks ready to others as he bounds about and speaks well, but actually will really struggle with phonics, handwriting etc and would benefit from another year of play.

Should i ask to defer again?? Tying myself in knots. We deferred ds1 who was clearly not ready (very shy, speech delay) and it did him the world of good, but this seems a trickier decision. I also think this year may not be easy due to cv, and wonder if it's fsir to give one an advantage but not the other...

Why is not wiping his own bottom related to coronavirus??
If his physical skills are good and his social skills sound ok, send him. Teachers have been teaching August born children forever and unless he has underlying issues, it should not be a problem.

I think they mean that staff are socially distancing so kids have to be able to dress/ undress, toilet independently and open their own packed lunch.

Yes there's always been August borns but stats show they've always been disadvantaged in lots of ways (though i know not all individuals fit this pattern)

To be fair, a NT child at 4 should be able to have a pretty good go at self care things and a Reception teacher worth her salt should help as needed.
If he is a bright little thing but lacks the 'school' stuff , an extra year in nursery won't necessarily help. As an EYFS teacher, we really do see the whole spectrum of "readiness to learn". I worry more about kids who are held back then expected to do a y6-y8 leap , which is enormous and not uncommon, so would rather bust a gut to get them to y1 ready in a year than let them suffer in the longer term.

@pastaparadise

I think they mean that staff are socially distancing so kids have to be able to dress/ undress, toilet independently and open their own packed lunch.

Yes there's always been August borns but stats show they've always been disadvantaged in lots of ways (though i know not all individuals fit this pattern)

My DDs school have said they won't be SDing staff from the infants (so YR to Y2 kids) as they need so much extra help so I wouldn't worry too much.

My DD went back in June having regressed a bit and she was helped with packed lunches and toileting. Although some of it was done with staff wearing gloves and aprons

'I worry more about kids who are held back then expected to do a y6-y8 leap , which is enormous and not uncommon'

This is scare-mongering. This is not expected at all, the law states children stay with their cohort. Can only be moved in the child's best interests in consultation with parents. So disappointing when even teachers aren't clued up.

I've deferred dd and the difference in readiness is unbelievable. That said she definitely still fit in with her cohort at preschool. Multi age groups are good for children and more natural/less competitive. Plus the cut off point for cohorts are completely arbitrary.

I'd always say wait but in corona year it's a no brainer. Keep your child out of that environment. Expect reception to be far more 'normal' next year. Completely agree with the pp who said expectations and the environment are completely unnatural for under 7s and beyond.

I do understand not wanting to stand out but I'd be brave op, it's becoming far more common.

Both my dc are summer born and young for their age. DD’s toileting skills were definitely questionable when she started in reception at just turned 4, and the gap in development between her and her classmates who were nearly 5 seemed like a gulf.

But she loved it. Absolutely thrived. The teachers waved away my concerns with a ‘this is all completely normal’ approach, and nothing was a problem. Reception is very gentle and play based.

I wouldn’t defer. Especially if you’d be settling him in to a new nursery only to have to resettle him in a completely new setting with new friends a year down the line. I think that would be far worse.

I wouldn’t defer, one of mine was summer born and he seemed so much less ready for school than his older brother, but he loved it and has ended up being very successful academically and socially. I think your comparison, and mine, with their older sibling colours your outlook on how ready he is.
You need to work on his bum wiping skills, he really should be having a very good go at that already, and you have at least another six weeks to work on it ( probably 7 or 8 as it it likely that reception start later than the rest of the school).
The other thing I would mention is if he gets into quite a number of team sports then he will need to play for the correct year out of school ( ie not with his school pals) and if the school team does well enough to play in national competitions then he will be excluded. I have seen that a few times over the years with kids I teach, and friends kids and it causes absolute heartbreak.

I’m an August person - always the youngest, but it’s not like the class is made of 29 autumn babies and 1 summer one - there are people of all ages / maturities and it’s normal and fine. There will be other summer babies and the teachers are used to it! Someone has to be the youngest! I agree being held back a year may have disadvantages - being a year above may lead to questions later, and the sports issue is important. I’ve taught reception and school readiness is nothing to do with reading / writing - you describe him as confident and sociable - these are the useful things! And being able eat lunch, doing up his own coast would be a bonus (remembering queue of small people, arms wide waiting for coats to be zipped for them 🤣).

This is scare-mongering
This really isn't. A primary school can choose to keep a child back but the secondary does not have to agree. Many primaries are making children jump from N to y1 if they deferred Reception. Just because it didnt happen to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I'm late August birthday - didn't do me any harm. There has to be a cut off, do you think your teenager will be angry at 18 when they have another year of school left, worst still legally they could leave without taking GCSEs because they are 16.

Changing the start date lasts their childhood, unless theres significant delays it's usually not a good idea

Oh and sports are a major problem, they cannot play for their year group as there's strict age cut offs - we had to provide birth certificate or passport for football.

Things that really help:

• independent toileting
• able to get in and out of coat (bonus points for hanging it up)
• able to change for PE and back (bonus points for putting own clothes in a heap together and not strewing)
• able to recognise own name (for labels etc, no need to know any other words)
• able to blow own nose (and bin tissue)
• able to sit for a few minutes (eg for a story)
• able to follow simple instructions
• able to eat own lunch (I'm assuming schools dinners at thus age), so knife and fork in a normal way and carrying a plate/tray without spilling
• uses own water bottle properly

Quite a list, but not all starters can do all of that, so the key thing is Don't Worry. Your DC is vanishingly unlikely to be doing anything that KS1 teachers haven't dealt with oodles of times before. And once in a group, they all pick stuff up really rapidly, and things which seem a distant prospect right now they'll be doing with aplomb after a couple of weeks

Commentutappelles is quite right that some, if not most, schools will require the child to move up a year at some point. The Law does not give children the right to stay in their new cohort.
If your child deferred and stayed out of cohort through primary school, when they got to Y5 (in England) you would have to apply for secondary school (as they would be the correct age) and ask that school if your child could defer entry. If they agreed, then your child would stay in their primary school for Y6 and move up with their classmates. If the secondary school said no, they would miss Y6 and move up to Y7 with children they don't really know.
It's a lot to think about. Even if children have an Education & Health Care Plan, there is no guarantee that they can stay in their new deferred year group right through school.
I hope that makes sense and it is applicable in England.

Can anyone link the guidelines that say a child HAS to at some point return to their ‘correct’ year? I’ve just googled and can find nothing of the kind.

Nothing says they have to.

But neither does anything compel a secondary schoool to accept an out of cohort pupil, so that needs to be planned for.

Nor if you move house, would a school at destination have to take them out-of-cohort

And if the pupil is sporty, planning to move them to their normal age cohort could well be useful

pastaparadise re my son, as mentioned up thread. (The one who would have benefitted from repeating YR).

He's doing fine! He didn't repeat YR, he repeated Y12. 😂 But seriously, we battled him through GCSEs (at a very supportive comp.) .

But Oh, the battles! Aged 15. He got one grade lower than his predicteds in 6/10 GCSEs. 🙄

He went into a very forgiving Sixth Form doing Maths, Physics, Economics and Geography ASs. With the same sullen attitude. Born of immaturity.

By Feb I could see what direction it was heading in, so I staged an intervention 😂. As predicted, he dropped Maths and Physics, got D in Economics and E in Geog (AS levels). With his acknowledgment that it 'wasn't going well', and with an understanding that he 'didn't mind Computing', off he went, in Sept, local Tech, two year 3 A level equivalent BTEC in computing; now in Y3 of 4 (a year in industry) of a Computing degree, aged 21.

So imo, DS's would possibly have been better served by starting YR a year later. But he went to uni at 19 which he reckons has served him well.

'S' has just finished his psychology degree.

The difference is that S, aged 5 in very early September, had the rara squad of achievement every step of the way.

My DS was 'average' throughout. Tho may have benefitted from some 'resilience' experiences along the way that S never had to endure.

Didnt do me any harm.... Always surprises me that people young for their year, if not as year ahead' (as I was, through grammar school, 1973...) don't understand statistics.

Statistically the older in-year DC do better than the younger ones. Oxbridge entrants are heavily weighted in favour of Sept-Dec birthdays.

Somewhat obviously that's because, even if exam results for entry are 'age adjusted', the older DC have spent years being lauded for their academic and physical prowess. Being older and stronger. Above Average.

That engenders confidence. Which the younger DC get no taste of.

I could say 'I went to GS a year early'. By 15, it did me no favours.

@meditrina

Things that really help:

• independent toileting
• able to get in and out of coat (bonus points for hanging it up)
• able to change for PE and back (bonus points for putting own clothes in a heap together and not strewing)
• able to recognise own name (for labels etc, no need to know any other words)
• able to blow own nose (and bin tissue)
• able to sit for a few minutes (eg for a story)
• able to follow simple instructions
• able to eat own lunch (I'm assuming schools dinners at thus age), so knife and fork in a normal way and carrying a plate/tray without spilling
• uses own water bottle properly

Quite a list, but not all starters can do all of that, so the key thing is Don't Worry. Your DC is vanishingly unlikely to be doing anything that KS1 teachers haven't dealt with oodles of times before. And once in a group, they all pick stuff up really rapidly, and things which seem a distant prospect right now they'll be doing with aplomb after a couple of weeks

Yes to this list. If i had every reception starter being able to do these things it would be the dream. I am certain 90% of the children who can't do these things would have been able to if shown/taught by their parents. Some parents do things for them, for an easy life maybe?