Genuine question, why is it legal to get a babies ears pierced?

[YellowEllis]

I can't fathom it. A girl I know has pictures on social media of her 5 month old getting her ears pierced and I was stunned and googled it and it's allowed? I can't understand it, I wasn't allowed mine pierced at 14 without my mother's consent, but her consent was additional to mine, to me even wanting it. A 5 month old can't ask, consent or would possibly want that. It's purely for the mothers vanity?

I don't know how people think they have the right to stop a cultural norm, entitled generation, much. But typical, lol.

FGM is the cultural norm in some places... so that’s okay then..... 🙄

@Quackersandcheese3

Bloodybridget , it was a nice present ! Better than toys . I’ll ask her in a few years time if she hates us for it though .

I’m fairly sure your child would have preferred the toys.

It’s blown my mind that Spanish babies have their ears pierced at birth. Do they ask the parents “Vit K injection? Silver or gold studs?”

@TheLightSideOfTheMoon

I thought it was 16 for piercings?

I assume many of the children/babies with pierced ears had them done at home by a family member.

I know a couple of trained peircers and I doubt they'd pierce a child. Dodgy AF.

Unfortunately places like Claire’s Accessories are more than happy to pierce the ears of babies.

Our local one does it in the shop window!

I suppose because it doesn't do a vast amount of harm. I don't particularly like it though.

Presumably Devlesko thinks FGM is fine too. And child labour. Fgs, culture is not an excuse for child abuse. Stop embarrassing yourself.

It looks bloody awful. In England, there's no law surrounding ear piercing, although decent places won't do it on kids at all (and especially not babes-in-arms). I think 10 is probably the youngest I'd want my daughter to have hers done; I think I was 13.

@Devlesko

I wonder how the white mc UK residents would feel if other cultures started telling them they couldn't keep their culture. Live in a house? No, that's wrong you can't do that we live in tents on mountains, I'm going to start a petition. Leave your kids in a nursery to go out to work? What your husbands can't earn enough to keep you all? Well, we don't dump our kids in nurseries to cry for weeks before they settle, how cruel. I'll start a petition. Has to be the gf thread of the year, this one.

All cultures condemn child abuse and neglect, they just differ in what they understand child abuse and neglect to be. If someone genuinely believes it is a cruel and abusive practise to pierce a child's ears, they believe it is cruel and abusive whatever the motivation for it, and they aren't going to be able to accept "well it's traditional in my culture" as good reason to do it.

FGM is widely regarded as an appalling crime, as terrible abuse of girls and young women. But the people who practise it do not believe it is wrong, or abuse- they believe it is necessary and that not doing it is a form of neglect. They believe they will fail their child if they do not do it. They can point to it being a cultural norm, an important tradition, etc. But people who recognise that FGM is abuse are not swayed by those arguments. They can see that FGM harms children, and they do not regard "well it's traditional in my culture" as a good enough reason for it to continue.

Ear piercing is not FGM, of course, but I use FGM as an example because it illustrates very well the weakness of "but it is our tradition" as an argument for why something should continue. Traditions change. Norms change.

When a practise is attacked because it is of a particular culture, that is wrong. But that is not what is happening here. We do have to consider that there are numerous non white British cultures for whom the piercing of babies is the norm and balance the rights of people to retain the cultural practices important to them with the rights of babies to be protected from abuse. You'll find many, many white British people who wholly support people's right to pierce babies. You'll find many who don't like it and wouldn't do it but don't want to curtail other's rights to do so. And you'll find many who think it is wrong and needs banning.

All of the girls in my family had them done (Including myself) very very young and for cultural reasons

ie one whose mother is from Central America; the rest of us from north east Glasgow

I’ll Be happy though to keep buying my DD stick ons till she’s old enough to go to a proper piercer herself (read NOT Claire’s accessories)

Because it hasn't been "made illegal" yet. That's the facetious answer.

It's child abuse.

Putting aside the fact that I think it’s awful I don’t understand how it’s legal to pierce their ears but not other parts and how circumcision is legal but it would be illegal if I had another bit of skin removed from my child

Can I get my child’s nose pierced? Belly button? I don’t think I can. Why is that different?

It totally should be outlawed. It blows my mind that one is allowed to mutilate a defenceless human being like this.

I wonder how the white mc UK residents would feel if other cultures started telling them they couldn't keep their culture.

Well, am I trying to build a house that would damage the ecosystem in which they live and hurt living things in the area that they care about? Do they consider this abhorrent and morally wrong? If so, yes they're entitled to stop me. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Besides which, cultural practices are nothing more than a set of traditions (which often serve to subjugate women tbh. Like a cultural tradition that women don't drive or leave the home without a male escort. Or have to undergo a painful and unnecessary cosmetic procedure as infants because they have a vagina.) Where these traditions are incompatible with the rights we hold dear- such as not causing unnecessary pain to people without their consent- they should be banned. Otherwise, where do you draw the line? FGM and physical punishments for children (and wives, in some places) are also cultural practices, after all (as is child marriage and forced marriage). Cultural does not mean defensible and definitely does not mean above challenge or reproach.

Devlesko I have explained that as a person of one of the cultures you describe, who had her ears pierced as a baby, I think it is a practice that should be challenged. Why is my view not important? Others in my family had the same - some care, some don't. But you can avoid the problem altogether by letting the child grow up and decide for themselves.

Quackersandcheese I certainly don't hate my parents for doing it, but I would much prefer that they hadn't. I would probably still have got them done as I used to wear earrings as a teenager, but my earlobes would have been closer to their adult size and I'd have been able to stay still, so I would have had nice neat holes rather than lifelong wonky ones.

There was also the problem of school. We were initially not allowed to wear any at all, so I'd have to remember to take them out before the school week and put them in every weekend. Later we were allowed plain studs, but had to remove for PE, which was another faff I could have done without as a 5-10 year old frankly.

If someone pierced my body in a situation where I could not consent, it would be considered illegal assault. Putting a hole in a child and placing them at risk of deformity (kelpid scarring) and infection for cosmetic reasons shouldn't be allowed until that child is old enough to understand the implications. Noone needs to pierce their child's ears.

On the subject of cultural issues, I dont place greater importance on culture than I do on the welfare of children - there are many things that are culturally accepted in some countries that are illegal here - fgm, punishment with implements, scarification, child marriage... so in my opinion, it's not a reasonable argument to put forth.

FWIW I am also not a supporter of circumcision for any reason other than a medical one.

Luckily by the time I was a teenager my parents realised they didn't have to slavishly follow the more dubious traditions of our culture, such as having a massive "age attainment" party to announce that I'd started my periods to the whole community

@Devlesko

I wonder how the white mc UK residents would feel if other cultures started telling them they couldn't keep their culture. Live in a house? No, that's wrong you can't do that we live in tents on mountains, I'm going to start a petition. Leave your kids in a nursery to go out to work? What your husbands can't earn enough to keep you all? Well, we don't dump our kids in nurseries to cry for weeks before they settle, how cruel. I'll start a petition. Has to be the gf thread of the year, this one.

None of your examples are in anyway comparable as they are not piercing the skin of an infant who cannot and has not consented to that, for no benefit of their own, but arguably for the parents. Whether it's for the parents beliefs, desires or vanity, it serves no benefit for the baby, does cause pain and can result in infections and in many cases, a quick google search has revealed, babies having to be put to sleep and have them surgically removed in extreme cases. Where there is no benefit to the child, but there is pain and risk, why should this practice be legal?

It is nothing remotely comparable to kids going to nursery or living in a house.

My sister had hers done as a baby, as did all of the women in our family for cultural reasons, tradition doesn’t mean its okay. All the boys were circumcised for religious reasons, again, that doesn’t make it okay. Saying it’s wrong doesn’t make you racist, islamaphobic etc. If you’re religion requires you to skin a part of your childs body then you need to carefully think about which one is more important.

Men having piercings is forbidden, I have my nose, both ear lobes and a nipple done, people who say ‘we should respect cultures’ fail to realise that would mean banning people like me from having piercings as the culture I’m from strictly forbids men from having any piercings.

What annoys me about these sort of things is that people go ‘oh it shouldn’t be allowed here’ and place a higher value on the rights of children in britain. If someone genuinely thought it was wrong they wouldn’t limit their beliefs to the UK.

There are however in my view bigger fish to fry, fgm, hunger, hiv etc.

I wouldn't pierce my children ears but it is just a hole. it will grow over if in adulthood they don't want pierced ears.

I wouldn't pierce my children ears but it is just a hole. it will grow over if in adulthood they don't want pierced ears.

It doesn't always, you know. I never wear earrings but the holes are very definitely still there. After a while skin forms on the inside of the holes and once that's happened there's nothing to heal over.

@Devlesko
So no culturally driven mutilations should be challenged then?

This thread is ridiculous, talking about what culture YOU live in where YOU don't think it's acceptable.

So You're fine with male circumcision? female genital mutilation? Foot binding?

Trafficking of wildlife and human slavery are also cultural norms in some cultures - are they ok too?

I don't know how people think they have the right to stop a cultural norm, entitled generation, much.

Because simply doing something for cultural reasons is not a good justification for inflicting pain and misery on others. Killing people with albinism for medicine is a cultural norm in parts of Tanzania - that doesn't make it ok. Honour killings are not 'justifiable' simply because they're culturally driven. Your argument is nonsensical. Also which 'entitled generation' are you specifically referring to? Relatively few people on this thread will be in their 20s like the OP and yet we still agree with her.

What people are doing on this thread is evaluating the costs and benefits. Costs of ear piercing in a newborn include pain, soft tissue injury and potential infection. Benefits are that the parent likes how it looks.

Clearly you value the parent's aesthetic preferences over the infants distressing experience. That's your choice. I'm not sure it puts you on a morally superior footing though.

I don’t agree with piercing a young child’s ears. I think they should be old enough to understand and say yes to it. But equally, I can’t get too worked up about it. It’s not particularly painful, and it’s probably far easier to keep them clean and tamper free in a baby who isn’t going to fiddle with them! I only had mine pierced at 30 - last year - and I wish I’d done it younger.

Frankly, it's legal because the uproar it would cause isn't worth it.

There are various reasons I am against piercing of children too young to ask for it, but physically it's not on the same level as FGM, or even navel piercings (very painful, take ages to heal). When we're struggling to save girls from genital mutilation, and no-one wants to discuss non-medical circumcision of male infants because it's culturally insensitive, banning infant ear piercing is not going to happen.

Infant ear piercing will be made illegal when there has been such a cultural shift that banning it is a vote winner. Currently, it's not.

Literally every woman I know has pierced ears so I can't get worked up about at what age they were done. Almost everyone wants pierced ears. Personally I wouldn't do it to a young child (because hygiene and worries about wonkyness and don't like the look) but once age 10 or over and asking for it then I'm fine with it. I'm also fine with other women doing it younger because frankly it's not my business.