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'Has went'- where has 'gone'... gone?!

75 replies

PotholeParadise · 22/07/2020 11:31

When did this start?

I keep seeing it everywhere. I've seen it so much I'm beginning to say and type it.

It is 'she went to the shop' or 'she has gone to the shop'. What is this unholy matrimony of two tenses at once? It's like putting pasta on pizza!

If she hadn't gone today (I nearly typed 'went'!), she could have gone tomorrow!

Notes: Complete conjugation of the verb to go here with all the technical names - conjugator.reverso.net/conjugation-english-verb-go.html

OP posts:
FraughtwithGin · 22/07/2020 14:42

With you on all your comments OP.
In addition I can offer the confusion between using bring and take as well as lend and borrow. I recently saw someone write " she borrowed me money" and "I loaned money off her" which is confusing to lend and a loan.
What can I say? I am not entirely convinced by the language fluidity argument.

TildaKauskumholm · 22/07/2020 14:46

It's just one of many examples which illustrate the decline of the English language. It does matter, and yes I do think less of people who can't or won't use it correctly.

wowfudge · 22/07/2020 14:47

Don't get me started on the use of rung and rang and other verbs which follow the same pattern.

LadyGrey66 · 22/07/2020 14:50

Is it a regional thing? I’m English but live in NI, and have noticed a lot of my colleagues use it when speaking or writing informally.

LadyOfTheImprovisedBath · 22/07/2020 14:51

I don't like usage of 'gotten' but it may well be that this is a regional thing .

Something DS picked up from minecraft youtubers several years ago and now I hear more and more from all ages. So if it was regional I think it's been quietly spreading.

tiredanddangerous · 22/07/2020 14:56

I hear it a lot where I live (midlands) along with "I seen" and "I done". I always think it makes people sound uneducated and more than a bit thick but it definitely isn't always the case!

Polyxena · 22/07/2020 14:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cornishmumofone · 22/07/2020 14:57

I've never heard this in the south so am assuming it's probably a regional thing

AdaColeman · 22/07/2020 14:57

"I am sat..." is the one that I notice is used widely now.
I started to notice it a couple of years ago, but it is creeping in everywhere now.

JamieLeeCurtains · 22/07/2020 15:01

My DS's grammar is ok but he has returned from three years at university saying 'them books' and 'them rolls' etc, as in: ' is it all right if I have one of them rolls for lunch?'

I reply, 'yes you may have one of those rolls' but I think it sweeps over him like a fast moving cloud on one of them breezy days.

Nousernameslefttouse · 22/07/2020 15:05

I actually know of a pizza shop that sells pizza with pasta on top : )

LadyOfTheImprovisedBath · 22/07/2020 15:06

‘Got’ and ‘gotten’ in British and American English

On US websites, has/have/had gotten outnumbers has/have/had got by almost two to one. So that’s what a fully operational got–gotten distinction looks like. On Canadian sites, gotten is only slightly ahead of got, which suggests usage may be a bit more mixed. In Australia and Ireland, got is ahead by about three to one; gotten is common, but not fully accepted. And on British sites, has/have/had got outnumbers has/have/had gotten by seven to one.

(In a more formal context – Hansard’s record of proceedings in Parliament since 2010 – the ratio is about 1,500 to one.)

So, gotten is still far from mainstream in the UK, but it has built a firm presence. And, whether or not it catches on to become standard, it’s another example of British English using an Americanism.

Except that it isn’t.

This is how British English used to work – or rather, how English English used to work before Britain even existed.

The English decline of gotten
The huge list of example sentences in the OED suggests that gotten reigned supreme until the late 1500s, when got increasingly appeared in its place. Shakespeare and Hobbes used both. Got seems to have overtaken gotten around 1700.

Thing was DS wasn't watching US youtubers but UK ones - perhaps gotten was due to their ages.

Can't help with the has went as I've not heard that.

Though did see and hear I seen I done in midlands and I agree it did make speakers sound uneducated which wasn't always the case.

Rhine · 22/07/2020 15:17

‘You was’ is another that annoys me.

Sparticle · 22/07/2020 15:24

I've only heard this from footballers and pundits on TV. So annoying. Thankfully I haven't heard it in real life... yet!! Shock

PotholeParadise · 22/07/2020 15:28

@wowfudge

Don't get me started on the use of rung and rang and other verbs which follow the same pattern.
Ooh, now that's really interesting. I've seen a few rung/rang mix-ups, but I thought they were typoes. But if this is widespread, I think this is language indicating social change. Since the advent of texts and emails, perhaps we simply don't make enough telephone calls to preserve the vowel change? I think ring/rang/rung is the anchor that keeps the other verbs of the pattern in place, so they might simplify afterwards too.

For those who have no idea what I'm chuntering about, irregular verbs, like the vowel-change group (ring/rang/rung), only maintain their irregularity in language if they are in such daily usage that the grammar is easily internalised. So that children grow up thinking it just sounds right to say I rang yesterday and so on. Otherwise the irregularities are dropped because the next generation of people don't hear the verb enough to treat it as irregular without conscious thought. For a comparison, consider mow as in to mow the lawn. (I don't know whether it was irregular once, but it isn't now.) I regularly mow the lawn, but not that regularly, so naturally I spend little of my time talking about it with anyone, including my children, and so with us all. So it follows the regular verb pattern I mow-I was mowing-I have mowed.

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wowfudge · 22/07/2020 15:36

That's quite a leap to make - I think it's ignorance or confusion as to what is correct rather than not hearing them used frequently.

LadyOfTheImprovisedBath · 22/07/2020 15:42

I have heard the idea before that irrgular verbs get weeded out with time.

www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/the-evolution-of-the-past-tense-how-verbs-change-over-time

Erez Lieberman, Martin Nowak and colleagues from Harvard University are looking at this record to mathematically model how our verbs evolved and how they will change in the future.

....

Today, less than 3% of verbs are irregular but they wield a disproportionate power. The ten most commonly used English verbs - be, have, do, go say, can, will, see, take and get - are all irregular. Lieberman found that this is because irregular verbs are weeded out much more slowly if they are commonly used.

PotholeParadise · 22/07/2020 15:48

But surely the confusion could reflect decreased usage? That is the historical pattern for irregular English verbs becoming regular.

On that note, I think seek is in danger of losing its past participle of sought. I saw 'seeked' on a poster not long ago.

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LadyOfTheImprovisedBath · 22/07/2020 16:04

I would have thought seeked a mistake - as It's not something I've seen and heard.

However DD2 and her classmates did do drawed for drew in conversations and writing- took a while for DD2 to stop doing it- this year Y6 really - as I think they weren't being corrected in school consistently like we were doing at home.

Budapestpest · 22/07/2020 16:07

Isn’t it a Scottish thing? I hear loads of Scottish people saying it but no one else really

JoeCalFuckingZaghe · 22/07/2020 16:22

If we were in a more weighty arena, I might trouble to tell you how bloody offensive it is that in any discussion of linguistics, cultural linguistic changes that have absolutely nothing to do with dyslexia or any other learning disability or communication impairment get fobbed off on us
Tell me then. Tell me, since you know absolute bot all about my education level and grasp of linguistics. Go ahead.

wowfudge · 22/07/2020 16:56

I really don't think there has been decreased use of those verbs. It's more that we're less inclined to correct errors of grammar and that many people don't think it's important to do so. Let's face it, it may jar, but we know what the person means.

PotholeParadise · 22/07/2020 17:16

@JoeCalFuckingZaghe

If we were in a more weighty arena, I might trouble to tell you how bloody offensive it is that in any discussion of linguistics, cultural linguistic changes that have absolutely nothing to do with dyslexia or any other learning disability or communication impairment get fobbed off on us Tell me then. Tell me, since you know absolute bot all about my education level and grasp of linguistics. Go ahead.
I feel you've rather missed the point. I don't care about your grasp of linguistics or education level.

I am annoyed about you using other people's disabilities to play top trumps about how understanding you are when you know absolutely 'bot all' about my education level, grasp of linguistics or disability. (I have never spent a day in 'mainstream' school between 5 and 16, for crying out loud.)

Let's recap.

Language is becoming more fluid as the world gets smaller, regional idioms and dialects become more prevalent and widespread and things get muddy and mixed.

Here you make a point about regionalisms becoming more widespread due to social media and internet. It was valuable and interesting.

I've also found being with a dyslexic DP and working with children excluded from mainstream education who have little grasp of language has made me more aware of language as a whole and how elitist it can be.

Right. So what's your point here? I'm reading it as 'you're elitist to comment on she has went and you should be more understanding of people with dyslexia and children with communication issues. If you did you wouldn't make this thread, you snob.'

Er. Right. I have the same relationship to dyslexia as you claim to (and he hates having it used as a disability card to excuse other people's errors in the way you did) and I was a child with communication issues, both spoken (couldn't even pronounce my own name until 10 years old) and written due to a neurological disability that impairs communication. I became 'very aware of language' as you put it, as a result, and then very interested in it. It's fair to speculate that I had and continue to have (they're still there) fewer struggles than the children you may visit, but I think we can safely say I am aware of elitism around language.

The children you work with are not a tool for you to signal your moral superiority with, and nor is your partner. In short, I find your post distasteful.

As long as the point gets across that is enough in normal, everyday situations.

This is something to post when someone has critiqued grammar in response to a cry for support. Posting it on a thread about grammar in general is just an attempt to shut the discussion down by making people feel guilty.

Pedants Corner might be your home though.
Having valorised yourself for being with a dyslexic DP and worked with children excluded from mainstream, you conclude with a little snide remark implying that I can't attain such lofty heights of understanding as you.

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PotholeParadise · 22/07/2020 17:23

@wowfudge

I really don't think there has been decreased use of those verbs. It's more that we're less inclined to correct errors of grammar and that many people don't think it's important to do so. Let's face it, it may jar, but we know what the person means.
Perhaps we could all do a tally chart of how often we hear or see any form of ring/rang/rung, over the course of a month or so?

I actually want to be wrong on this one, because I think there's a beauty and rhythm to the vowel change pattern, and I'd much rather believe that it's not going to be lost.

OP posts:
Lostnameperson · 22/07/2020 17:24

I've only heard this from footballers and pundits on TV.

Alan Shearer’s probably got a lot to answer for!