The working day should be 9-3, standard.

[Indecisivelurcher]

The working day should be 9-3. No need for wraparound childcare, which costs £'s and tires children out. More mothers can work. We will have time to look after our elderly, which is so important with aging global populations. With a shorter working day, we have time to pursue our own interests, hobbies and clubs. Time to exercise. Time to cook from scratch. We can keep fit and look after our wellbeing, reducing costs on the NHS. To get a good uptake, clubs should be heavily subsidised, but people will have time to volunteer too, to run the local clubs, to look after green spaces. Because we'll be spending more time outdoors, we'll value our green spaces more and want to look after them. We'll spend time in town centres and hang out in cafe's, instead of just grabbing a takeaway coffee. We will spend our money on local shops instead of online. We will be a community. Time is the key, not money.

@Parkandride

Morrison’s have introduced working nine instead of eight hours a day over four days, plus a six-hour day one Saturday per month. So they’re not working less hours in total. Hence no pay drop.

I agree that people should work less hours. We aren't meant for this - when we were hunter gatherers, people 'worked' for around 20 hours a week and spent the rest of the time telling stories, eating and bonding.

And it's swings and roundabouts what ,s one person's idea of flexible working is another person's idea of hell,when I was a nurse I worked mainly in the wards but I was moved to a day unit 8-4 Monday to Friday for 12 months due to redeployment baring in mind I have only ever been used to shift work ,having days off during the week etc , it was a bit of a culture shock to find I couldn't just pop to the bank in the middle of the day,or that supermarkets ,are often much busier during the evening or weekends the only time I could go ,or that I had to book time off for dental/ medical appointments rather than just going on my days off or before a late shift etc .

If your work means you can change to 9-3 or drop a day with no ill effects, it probably isn't essential work.

I’m an actuary, good luck maintaining the financial sector, insurance, pensions etc without us!

You've not addressed the pay issue.....wound you be happy to take home less pay?

Getting more people to do the work doesn't help either as that is costly to an employer.

As for the commute - what if you do a job that can't be done close to your house? As an academic I can do lots of my job from home but I still need to be on campus to teach. I'm very lucky my nearest up university offers my subject but it's still 45 min commute. The next closest university would be 3 hours away.

Flexible working and some WFH is the answer.

*would

With a full lunch hour too? Ridiculous suggestion, the world should not revolve around you because you have children. Work part time - you know like many people do. FFS

@hogdogketchup personally in part time so 30hrs would give me a pay rise, it's what I aspire to go up to when both kids are in school.

However, genuine question to the group then, if everyone worked 30hrs a week

1. would pay have to drop if productivity remained the same?

2. if pay was cut would the costs of goods and services then adjust to this so that we ended up in much the same position?

I'm interested in the economic theory of this if anyone knows?

@laaalaaa actually I was thinking 6hrs doesn't need a lunch break. And I am part time. But I was thinking more about wider societal issues, not my personal circumstances. It's a debate. No need to be snarky.

@gutentag1 I'm up for that

Ok I think the OP has got the message that maybe m-f 9-3 won’t work for everyone....

But really I do think this is a good opportunity to look at how we all work and how we can work better. The typical office bring at desk at least 9-5 5 days a week default hasn’t changed much in approach over the last 60 years and still has an unspoken underpinning that the important person in the office has an unimportant person at home doing everything. People, largely women, have been trying to chip away at this for a long time but COVID has led to more change in how and where people work than had been achieved in the 10 years before that and many people are not going to be willing to just go back to how things were before.

@Indecisivelurcher For the economy to survive wages would need to remain the same really. If wages fell by 1/5 countrywide goods produced solely in the UK may fall in cost slightly to reflect a reduced wage bill, but the different would be tiny. However most goods would become expensive (due to the 1/5 pay cut), so people would spend less, so less VAT to fund vital services, less money into the pocket of businesses etc. Thats the simplified version.

Unless wages remain largely the same the economy would suffer greatly.

No, we need flexible childcare options for workers to work all hours. Eg. So lone parents can work night shifts. Because we can't do away with night shifts.

@gutentag1

I agree that people should work less hours. We aren't meant for this - when we were hunter gatherers, people 'worked' for around 20 hours a week and spent the rest of the time telling stories, eating and bonding.

What you described is the hunting part. In traditional hunter gathering societies, even now, the gathering part (done by women, the elderly, and young children) is constant and the glue that holds society together. The hunters are celebrated and vital but ultimately expendable.

Rebelwithallthecause school is 07:30- 13:00 in the European country I live in, 08:00-11:20 for the litter ones. Doing similarly to or better than the UK and France (who have really long days) in international comparisons like Pisa.

I think a 30 hour working week as standard is actually a good idea - creates capacity for more job creation and a better work life balance, but yes people would have to get used to having less money and the minimum wage would have to be raised. Better to have more people working 30 hours than fewer working 40+

You can't dictate which hours though, as effectively everyone would work less days or shifts, and those working in antisocial hours jobs need including.

I work 30 hours in a 24/7/365 job (not 9-3 though!) and find it's the right balance.

No of course it can't be designed around childcare for reasons already covered, not least the lack of teleportation technology...

No of course pay won’t stay the same if everyone does it. So many people work hours over their contracts every week because they are so busy. To allow everyone to cut hours companies will have to employ a hell of a lot more staff. You haven’t really thought this through have you. When my husbands on a major contract he’ll be working 12 hours a day (sometimes more) 7 days a week for up to 4 weeks. Maybe this doesn’t count because he’s a man.

Thanks @simonjt that's interesting. Please would you write me a workable economic policy that means we can all work less. I'll put the kettle on...

You’re coming across as a bit naive, you’re apply your own very specific situation across the board and there’s many variables.

In my line of work I time record. I have target chargeable hours and charge my time back to clients.

I couldn’t tell my clients I’d spent 10 hours on something but charge them for 15 on the basis I was more productive. Reduced hours on a piece of work comes with experience, but with experience comes a higher chargeable rate. So the work is given to the most appropriate fee earner on a case by case basis.

If I worked less hours, I’d have less time to charge back and need to take a reduction in pay.

There’s been other examples given to you too.

Honestly I think work from home should be the standard for office work, with office working as an exception.

A lot of people, possibly the majority, may not have the space, quiet and privacy to work at home long term. And they might save commuting time and costs, but they lose out in other ways - the employer saves on office space, but the workers and their families lose part of their home.

I think in theory it sounds like a perfect idea 🤗

My DC's school finishes at 1.20 for my youngest and 2.20 for my eldest...I finish at 3.40 (also a school) so a 3 finish would be lovely but I would still need childcare...

@laaalaaa I have just been thinking about things so I started a debate on a chat site to see what others thought. I'm pretty clear you're not a fan. I'm also pretty clear my starting suggestion has ahem, a few holes. I'm not an economist. I'm not a politician. But I feel that as a society we need to talk about these things because 'normal' isn't working, on so many levels. The good news is I'm pretty sure your husband still counts, despite his genitals. I did neglect to mention the men in my original post, but luckily i did mention the elderly, volunteers, and ill people as well as children, so hopefully ticked a few boxes.

Yep Totally agree @GracieLane child care isn't particularly flexible in this country ,the hospital i worked at had a nursery for the children of employees ,lots of staff worked early shifts ,late shifts ,night shifts ,weekends ,bank holidays etc ,the Nursery was open from 7am to 6pm Monday to Friday

So if we had a standard 6 hour day, then we would need more people to get through the work
So yes, you might earn less but the poor souls on universal credit would also earn,

and since people would be more equal evidence from around the world suggests that you would be happier, even if you had less purchasing power.

It would be better to shuffle money from the seriously rich to the poor but that is even less likely to happen . But we could take. Money off them to give to people who were caring for others. Like, um, pay people who do useful things like supporting the elderly

As much as I love my job, I agree we spend too much time at work. There is more to life than grafting away to the point of exhaustion just to make somebody else money.

I think the work/life balance needs addressing right across the board. And yet weirdly, compared to the workforces of the past, we have never had it so good. Paid holidays, paid sick leave, maternity leave, shared parental leave, flexible working requests etc.

I do honestly think there is more to life than work and it does bother me that I'm not around as much for my kids as I would like to be. Both my kids educations have thrived during lockdown with having one to one time with me. When September comes it's back to the grind for me and the kids again and we all end up exhausted.